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Post by Steve on Jan 13, 2005 3:55:58 GMT -5
Hi All - This is my first post. No-one likes gaps when reading comics. I hate it when I get a "whole" series only to find that it crosses-over with other titles and you miss half the story. Now that I have ALL the Defiant titles, I have listed what I think of as the best order in which to read them. Mostly they are listed by publication date, but some issues carry straight into the next one and can't be interrupted. Also I've considered any guest appearances and how they affect their own titles. This is by no means perfect - for example, every issue of Good Guys follows straight into the next, even though they cross-over with other issues, so I've only linked issues from the same title if they're in the middle of a major scene.
Hope this helps (any suggestions for change will be considered).
(Warriors of) Plasm # 0 Splatterball # 1 Warriors of Plasm # 1 – 4 Defiant Genesis # 1 (reprinted in Origin of the Defiant Universe # 1) Dark Dominion # 0 – 4 Warriors of Plasm: Home for the Holidays GN Good Guys # 1 Good Guys # 1.5 (available on Defiant1's fine site) Good Guys # 2 Warriors of Plasm # 5 – 7 Good Guys # 3 – 4 War Dancer # 1 – 2 Dark Dominion # 5 – 6 Charlemagne # 0 – 1 Warriors of Plasm # 8 – 9 Good Guys # 5 Dark Dominion # 7 Charlemagne # 2 Good Guys # 6 – 7 War Dancer # 3 – 5 Dogs of War # 1 Warriors of Plasm # 10 – 12 Dark Dominion # 8 – 9 Charlemagne # 3 Dogs of War # 2 Prudence & Caution # 1 Glory # 0 (available on Defiant1's fine site) Good Guys # 8 – 9 Charlemagne # 4 Dogs of War # 3 Prudence & Caution # 2 Dark Dominion # 10 Charlemagne # 5 War Dancer # 6 Dogs of War # 4 Great Grimmax # 0 Dogs of War # 5 Warriors of Plasm # 13
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Post by Defiant1 on Jan 13, 2005 4:19:33 GMT -5
Here was Todd's post on this topic: You could read them by the month they came out if you wanted to experience them as the readers did orginally. If you want to do it by strict continuity here's some help divided by "crossover" plotlines: Beginning of Plasm (a good starting point): Plasm 0-4 Plasm Graphic Novel Demons of Dark Hinge (happens between DD 3 and 4): Plasm 5-7 Good Guys 2 Nudge saga: Plasm 8-9 Dark Dominion 4 Good Guys 3 and 4 Wardancer 4 Charlemagne 4 Plasm 10-11 Charlemagne/War Dancer: Wardancer 1 and 2 OR Charlemagne 0 and 1 Charlemagne 2 Good Guys 6 and 7 Wardancer 3 and 4 Charlemagne 3 and 4 Wardancer 5 OR Charlemagne 5 Wardancer 6 ANY Plasm character appearances that is not in Plasm happens after Plasm 9. Dog of War 2 happens before Prudence and Caution 1 and the last issue of Good Guys (Glory cameo) happens in between Plasm 12 and 13. Most non-crossover issues it's hard to say what order they would relate to each other in. Compare and contrast... Defiant1
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Post by Brother J on Feb 11, 2005 15:08:38 GMT -5
I wanted to bump this post because I just completed my Defiant collection of the core books so I want to start a Defiant reading project. Any suggestions whether I should try to read these in the order mentioned in this thread or some other way? I've read some of the books as I've received them, but I think I'm going to just re-start from the beginning and go all the way to the end.
I'm also looking forward to reading some of the unpublished scripts out there once I get to the end of the stuff that was actually published. I'm looking forward to reading the entire Defiant Universe, so I can get a better idea of what it's all about.
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Post by Defiant1 on Feb 11, 2005 15:22:12 GMT -5
I wanted to bump this post because I just completed my Defiant collection of the core books so I want to start a Defiant reading project. Any suggestions whether I should try to read these in the order mentioned in this thread or some other way? I've read some of the books as I've received them, but I think I'm going to just re-start from the beginning and go all the way to the end. I'm also looking forward to reading some of the unpublished scripts out there once I get to the end of the stuff that was actually published. I'm looking forward to reading the entire Defiant Universe, so I can get a better idea of what it's all about. Todd's list might better help you understand the Nudge crossover. Reading them at once is likely much better than reading them as they came out spaced months apart. Defiant1
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Post by Brother J on Feb 11, 2005 23:24:33 GMT -5
guess I ran into my first roadblock, I don't have Dark Dominion #0, which I'm assuming was only available as the card set. Any opinions on whether the #0 issue is a must read? I'm sure I can get a set of the cards cheaply but I was hoping to get a bunch of Defiants read soon and didn't want to wait for a set to come in via mail order.
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Post by Defiant1 on Feb 12, 2005 0:15:40 GMT -5
guess I ran into my first roadblock, I don't have Dark Dominion #0, which I'm assuming was only available as the card set. Any opinions on whether the #0 issue is a must read? I'm sure I can get a set of the cards cheaply but I was hoping to get a bunch of Defiants read soon and didn't want to wait for a set to come in via mail order. It would be very helpful to read. My summary online is a play by play of the action. Defiant1
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Post by Brother J on Feb 20, 2005 12:34:09 GMT -5
I finished my reading of all the Defiant books this weekend. I generally found the books to be pretty darn good, there were a lot of great ideas floating about with Defiant and the biggest shame is they never really got to develop the concepts any further than they did.
I also went back and read some old posts here on the Defiants and just about everything I thought about these books were already expressed by others here. The first thing I'll say is that I did feel at times that there were too many new concepts and characters added at too rapid of a pace for one to really get attached to any of them. Part of the problem I think was the headlong rush to get to the first company wide crossover in Schism. That's a big difference to me between Valiant and Defiant. With Valiant, you had the opportunity to get to know the characters in their own stories before the huge crossover took over their books with Unity. Also, even when the huge crossover was going on, each group of characters still maintained their own separate stories even while crossing over into the main Unity storyline.
I didn't feel that every Defiant book really got the chance to find it's own voice. Dark Dominion did a pretty good job. I would have liked to seen more battles between Michael and Chasm, but the later stories were very good even when not involved with Chasm or Mule.
Dogs of War was a very enjoyable series to me, though I'm pretty happy that the reported DOW/Good Guys crossover from the other thread didn't happen. Even though Shooter was a heartless SOB, I think he tried to do the right thing, even when doing what he thought was right might have crossed the line into doing something wrong. Maybe it says something about what kind of person I am to feel that Shooter was a hero, but that's the way I felt about him.
I liked Warriors of Plasm, even though the concept of the five as a team seemed to fall by the wayside pretty quickly. Sueraceen was a favorite character of mine, I guess it's just her twisted ways "tweaked" me just a bit! WOP #13 was quite a jolt and didn't make any sense to me until I came back here and read the Schism notes. After reading those, it seems like WOP #13 had basically the same content as what would have been Schism #4. Makes you wonder why they released this book as it seemed pretty awkward to read the end of a crossover that hadn't happened as of yet.
Good Guys was inconsistent to me, it always had the feel of "let's reintroduce the characters to the new readers" every few issues. Like I read on this board, that must have been the result of rapidly changing creative teams.
Neither Charlemagne and War Dancer did a lot for me as individual titles, even though both have really good art. They both seemed to be just leading to the ultimate battle between the two of them with some roadblocks thrown in the way to stretch out the stories until it was time for the big battle. Charlemagne got off to a very promising start, but once it seemed like the character's only reason to exist was to battle the Dancer it kind of trivialized what happened in the early issues for me. Where would have these two titles gone if Defiant had survived?
I didn't understand the reason for having the Prudence & Caution title AT ALL other than just to have something to bring Chris Claremont in to write. I feel like I got NOTHING out of reading P&C 1 and 2 and they are easily my two least favorite Defiant books.
I'd of course like to thank Defiant1 for creating the site and inspiring me to go back and read these books. I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been to have read these books when they were new and felt the energy within them just to have it go away all of the sudden like that.
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Post by Defiant1 on Feb 20, 2005 15:10:20 GMT -5
I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been to have read these books when they were new and felt the energy within them just to have it go away all of the sudden like that. Pretty much how I feel except you have to factor in the constant negative publicity about Jim and the Marvel lawsuit on top of that. The concepts were fine, but the distractions and the negative publicity just created more problems for them getting on track. Defiant1
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Post by Todd Luck on Feb 21, 2005 9:15:06 GMT -5
Dogs of War was a very enjoyable series to me, though I'm pretty happy that the reported DOW/Good Guys crossover from the other thread didn't happen. Even though Shooter was a heartless SOB, I think he tried to do the right thing, even when doing what he thought was right might have crossed the line into doing something wrong. After reading those, it seems like WOP #13 had basically the same content as what would have been Schism #4. Makes you wonder why they released this book as it seemed pretty awkward to read the end of a crossover that hadn't happened as of yet. Neither Charlemagne and War Dancer did a lot for me as individual titles, even though both have really good art. They both seemed to be just leading to the ultimate battle between the two of them with some roadblocks thrown in the way to stretch out the stories until it was time for the big battle. Where would have these two titles gone if Defiant had survived? I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been to have read these books when they were new and felt the energy within them just to have it go away all of the sudden like that. Quick responces: If you're refering to Shooter's death as the reason you're glad the x-over didn't happen, Shooter MAY have lived after his suicide attempt to go on to star in a title called "Mongrel". But it's just one possibility. Check out the earlier thread that we had on the unpublished ending of Dogs of War if you haven't already. I was always really thankful for the last issue of Plasm being one of the two final books they released since it basically told the entire crossover in one issue, so readers got some reward even if the miniseries wasn't going to be published. I'm not sure if it was planned that way (I always assumed it was) but I'm glad it was released. On WD's and Charles' future: War Dancer gets depowered, becomes a wrestler and the human chick from issue 1 and 2 gets to "house" his lover's spirit. Charlemagne goes back to Asia and fights Ngu (from Charlemagne 0). Plus, I doubt the foreshadowing in Good Guys of the Master and Charlemagne going at it was done for nothing. And, yes, it was extremely frustrating to see these books end, especially under the circumstances (with the vicious rumors and unwarrented Shooter bashing that were rampent at the time). I nearly gave up collecting comics altogether. As it turned out I decided to stick with 4 titles and I stayed with comics, though at a greatly deminished buying capacity. It was the only time I've ever considered dropping comics altogether (and people wonder why so many readers were lost in 90's).
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