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Post by toddluck on Jun 24, 2006 7:02:49 GMT -5
I remember reading somewhere that Broadway was made of concepts Shooter had left over from another company. I think this was a fan who wrote it and I can't remember wether it was Valiant or Defiant the concepts were left over from. Now, on here we did get confirmation from a creator that Til Death Do Us Part was a left over concept for villians from the Good Guys so we know it's true for at least one title. Seems like it would be hard for that to be true about every concept. I could see something like Spire or The Hell I Am making an appearance as supporting characters in a book like Dark Dominion, but some of them I can't. Some it would be hard to imagine not appearing in their own title. And both companies were pretty full with concepts for books and were reaching the max number of titles Shooter said they would have when they ended (Valiant ended when Shooter left of course  ). Still, Broadway could very easily fit into either universe as was illustrated in that unpublished story were Fatale meets Micheal Alexander. |
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Post by Defiant1 on Jun 24, 2006 8:36:54 GMT -5
I remember reading somewhere that Broadway was made of concepts Shooter had left over from another company. I think this was a fan who wrote it and I can't remember wether it was Valiant or Defiant the concepts were left over from. Now, on here we did get confirmation from a creator that Til Death Do Us Part was a left over concept for villians from the Good Guys so we know it's true for at least one title. Seems like it would be hard for that to be true about every concept. I could see something like Spire or The Hell I Am making an appearance as supporting characters in a book like Dark Dominion, but some of them I can't. Some it would be hard to imagine not appearing in their own title. And both companies were pretty full with concepts for books and were reaching the max number of titles Shooter said they would have when they ended (Valiant ended when Shooter left of course ). Still, Broadway could very easily fit into either universe as was illustrated in that unpublished story were Fatale meets Micheal Alexander. I believe it's impossible to erase hours of open discussion from your brain when it comes to creative concepts. Board member "ManofTheAtom" believes Fatale was leftover from Valiant. My theory is that Plasm was a reworked version of the Spider Alien Home World. I think all the universes Jim created could be forced to mesh. Some elements wouldn't be so easy, others would. Perhaps Master Darque became Chasm after a reworking of Jim's original idea? A merge is more interesting than it seems.... if you ignore everything after Valiant's unity storyline in Valiant continuity. Defiant1 |
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Post by toddluck on Jun 24, 2006 10:14:52 GMT -5
Some elements wouldn't be so easy, others would. Perhaps Master Darque became Chasm after a reworking of Jim's original idea? Defiant1 Doubtful. Shooter seemed to indicate he had nothing to with Darque in any form in the U2000 interview on Petrilak's old site. If Shooter had had the original idea, Darque probably would've appeared in some form in the Ria 0 Shooter was plotting, instead of being added into the dialog by others after Shooter left. Not too many simularities between Chasm and Darque other than their both powerful, very evil master villians. Though I always thought it would be to see them go at each other  |
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Post by Defiant1 on Jun 24, 2006 10:51:48 GMT -5
I remember reading somewhere that Broadway was made of concepts Shooter had left over from another company. I think this was a fan who wrote it and I can't remember wether it was Valiant or Defiant the concepts were left over from. Now, on here we did get confirmation from a creator that Til Death Do Us Part was a left over concept for villians from the Good Guys so we know it's true for at least one title. Seems like it would be hard for that to be true about every concept. I could see something like Spire or The Hell I Am making an appearance as supporting characters in a book like Dark Dominion, but some of them I can't. Some it would be hard to imagine not appearing in their own title. And both companies were pretty full with concepts for books and were reaching the max number of titles Shooter said they would have when they ended (Valiant ended when Shooter left of course ). Still, Broadway could very easily fit into either universe as was illustrated in that unpublished story were Fatale meets Micheal Alexander. Perhaps Shooter had been thinking of a Character like that for ahwile and someone else reinterpreted it? I think Chasm in the Valiant universe would be cooler than Darque. I just remember Hartz saying "There is no magic in the Valiant Universe." Surely it's based on Jim Shooters knowleedge of quantum physics?! Defiant1 |
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Post by toddluck on Jun 24, 2006 11:28:11 GMT -5
I just remember Hartz saying "There is no magic in the Valiant Universe." Surely it's based on Jim Shooters knowleedge of quantum physics?! Defiant1 No. Having read way too many of the post-shooter comics, I don't think they really had any clue on quantum physics. Hartz was refering to necromatic energy. The company line in interviews was that it's not magic because it's based on this energy. It's a way to explain things that seem magical. Since there's some reason for it for it being there and it has rules and limits it's not magic (according to them). Well after a couple years that became hard to swallow as all limits were removed from necromatic energy. It became the all purpose excuse for anything they wanted to do. Want to give someone random powers and turn them into a deformed mutants? Want to have a cosmic energy that causes disasters and black outs? Want an origin for the Lost Land? Want to put in Ditko-esque other dimesions straight out of Dr Strange? It did all that more. Eventually necromatic energy became what happened when Bob Layton ran out imagination ;D |
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Post by Defiant1 on Jun 24, 2006 13:37:13 GMT -5
I just remember Hartz saying "There is no magic in the Valiant Universe." Surely it's based on Jim Shooters knowleedge of quantum physics?! Defiant1 No. Having read way too many of the post-shooter comics, I don't think they really had any clue on quantum physics. Hartz was refering to necromatic energy. Then company line in interviews was that it's not magic because it's based on this energy. It's a way to explain things that seem magical. Since there's some reason for it for it being there and it has rules and limits it's not magic (according to them). Well after a couple years that became hard to swallow as all limits were removed from necromatic energy. It became the all purpose excuse for anything they wanted to do. Want to give someone random powers and turn them into a deformed mutants? Want to have a cosmic energy that causes disasters and black outs? Want an origin for the Lost Land? Want to put in ditko-esque other dimesions straight out of Dr Strange? It did all that more. Eventually necromatic energy became what happened when Bob Layton ran out imagination ;D I couldn't stand Necromantic enegy and damned if he didn't essentially pull in the same thing to his future comics universe. Defiant1 |
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Post by toddluck on Jun 28, 2006 13:34:36 GMT -5
A weird thought on Master Darque that occured to me while rereading Shadowman recently. Now knowing how Layton felt about Shooter and how MUCH he felt that about him (for God's sake, he even put Shooter in as a villian in his X-O movies treatment) something occured to me when I saw those early Darque appearances in shadow. He's tall, dressed in a business suit, has a pony tail...sound like anyone we know? I would hope Layton's grudge wouldn't make it into the comics, but you never know. Just a thought.
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Post by Brother J on Jun 28, 2006 16:16:47 GMT -5
At least Master Darque is a pretty cool character, though.
I think what John Byrne did to Shooter and his work in Star Brand was far more evil, not only making the Shooter-like character a big a-hole, but totally destroying the man's hometown, as well. I guess the guy really holds a grudge.
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Post by toddluck on Jun 28, 2006 18:13:13 GMT -5
At least Master Darque is a pretty cool character, though. I think what John Byrne did to Shooter and his work in Star Brand was far more evil, not only making the Shooter-like character a big a-hole, but totally destroying the man's hometown, as well. I guess the guy really holds a grudge. Byrne said "no" to that question on his forum. He said he didn't like what Shooter done had on the book (or the New Universe) and tried to drastically alter it to make it "good" in his eyes. This happens to a title about once a month in the comic industry now-a-days. It's wasn't the first time that's happened between two creators who happen not to like each other and it's certainly happened a zillion times since thens. I guess maybe the combo how of bad Byrne and Shooter's rep are sparked the whole "Byrne screwed Star Brand to get at Shooter" rumor/theory. Incidently they were going to rip off Byrne's Standbrand plot almost to the "T" to redo The Comet at Impact (except the insane, villianious Comet would remain the main character of the series). Maybe they forgot the fact the idea didn't work the first time  |
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Post by Brother J on Jun 28, 2006 20:50:11 GMT -5
At least Master Darque is a pretty cool character, though. I think what John Byrne did to Shooter and his work in Star Brand was far more evil, not only making the Shooter-like character a big a-hole, but totally destroying the man's hometown, as well. I guess the guy really holds a grudge. Byrne said "no" to that question on his forum. He said he didn't like what Shooter done had on the book (or the New Universe) and tried to drastically alter it to make it "good" in his eyes. This happens to a title about once a month in the comic industry now-a-days. It's wasn't the first time that's happened between two creators who happen not to like each other and it's certainly happened a zillion times since thens. I guess maybe the combo how of bad Byrne and Shooter's rep are sparked the whole "Byrne screwed Star Brand to get at Shooter" rumor/theory. I'm not surprised he denied it, really. I don't necessarily buy it, but that's just me. I don't exactly have a high opinion of the guy even though I love his work, especially his early stuff. |
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Post by toddluck on Jun 29, 2006 7:25:21 GMT -5
Byrne said "no" to that question on his forum. He said he didn't like what Shooter done had on the book (or the New Universe) and tried to drastically alter it to make it "good" in his eyes. This happens to a title about once a month in the comic industry now-a-days. It's wasn't the first time that's happened between two creators who happen not to like each other and it's certainly happened a zillion times since thens. I guess maybe the combo how of bad Byrne and Shooter's rep are sparked the whole "Byrne screwed Star Brand to get at Shooter" rumor/theory. I'm not surprised he denied it, really. I don't necessarily buy it, but that's just me. I don't exactly have a high opinion of the guy even though I love his work, especially his early stuff. Yeah but every single New Universe comic was tied together by the event that destoyed Pittsburgh. Would Gruenwald have based his entire line around some petty revenge scheme? And if that's how those plotlines work I'ld loved to know who the guys who were revamping Impact at the end were mad at, who the editors who plotted Emerald Twight hated, who hated Orstrander bad enough to wipe out everything he did on Martian Manhunter within a few monthes of the series' end, and why everyone at Valaint hated Jim Shooter  . |
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