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Post by VaultKeeper on Nov 28, 2004 13:29:27 GMT -5
Not sure if I missed it being discussed here or not, but there are two different versions of this issue. When it first came out, Jim Shooter's editorial page had a major fade to it due to ink problems, which made it nearly impossible to read. Jim had the entire issue reprinted with a corrected editorial page. He sent out corrected copies on his dime! That had to cost some cash! I have extra copies of both versions. Was anyone else aware of this error?---Steve G
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Post by knightt on Nov 28, 2004 14:43:36 GMT -5
No I wasnt aware of this... now THIS is some obscure Defiant trivia if I have ever seen it. I am learning more and more about Defiant every day it seems. Heck, I am going to check MY version of it now... LOL.
Any other tidbits of trivia out there ? I just learned about the four different versions of the Origin of the Defiant Universe books (normal version, comicfest genesis version, comicfest with Dark Dominion cards insert version and the just genesis version...)
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 28, 2004 15:18:13 GMT -5
Not sure if I missed it being discussed here or not, but there are two different versions of this issue. When it first came out, Jim Shooter's editorial page had a major fade to it due to ink problems, which made it nearly impossible to read. Jim had the entire issue reprinted with a corrected editorial page. He sent out corrected copies on his dime! That had to cost some cash! I have extra copies of both versions. Was anyone else aware of this error?---Steve G I may have known it at one time. I don't like promoting error comics or implying that defective comics might be somehow desireable. I follow the comic collecting precedent that an error comic is a defective comic and should be treated as such. I have a Dawn 1/2 that a Florida dealer threw in as a bonus for placing a big order. I received it and some pages were duplicated and others left out due to a printing mistake. I still get annoyed to this day that a dealer would pawn off his defective comics as an incentive to buy more from him. I find it hard to believe that Defiant had to pay for the printer's mistake. Usually the printer makes good on their own mistakes. There was a Sandman issue that had a printing defect and I think I read that the printer made good on that. If a defect actually enhances the appearance and can't be easily duplicated I can see wanting it. I cannot see wanting a faded editorial page. One of my friends traded his duplicate Valiant issues for a Black Venom comic. Something along the lines of that seem collectible because more than a handful exist and they do look cooler that the intended version. Defiant1 |
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 28, 2004 15:30:38 GMT -5
No I wasnt aware of this... now THIS is some obscure Defiant trivia if I have ever seen it. I am learning more and more about Defiant every day it seems. Heck, I am going to check MY version of it now... LOL. Any other tidbits of trivia out there ? I just learned about the four different versions of the Origin of the Defiant Universe books (normal version, comicfest genesis version, comicfest with Dark Dominion cards insert version and the just genesis version...) Terminology is important here. According to what CorevetteJim says, there are technically 3 versions of "Defiant Genesis" & one reprint under the name "The Origin of the Defiant Universe". So that's one (1) comic with two other variant configurations. And that's one (1) seperate comic with it's own title. And for those who are lost, this is what CorvetteJim says exist: DEFIANT Genesis #1 (without Comicfest banner) DEFIANT Genesis #1 (with Comicfest banner) DEFIANT Genesis #1 (with Comicfest banner & with card insert) Birth of the DEFIANT Universe #1 (reprints DEFIANT Genesis) My checklist had all those listed except the one with the card insert. I'd have to see it before I'd list it. If I can't find a Spanish copy of Prudence & Caution #2, I might pull that from my checklist. I was 99% sure I'd seen one before, but I can't find one in my collection. I may add a standalone version of Plasm #0. I'm convinced some test printings existed and were made public. Defiant1 |
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Post by VaultKeeper on Nov 28, 2004 15:38:46 GMT -5
There are people (like me  ) who collect comics with publisher's defects. Especially is it's a cover defect. I have a handful of various screw-ups. Look at what has happened to the Bloodshot #0 'Platinum' edition. Now that's just crazy money to spend, IMO. Most all of mine I've picked up at comc stores. Mixed up pages are a lesser 'defect', or even putting the wrong cover put on a differing title. With Valiant, I know of the Magnus #57 error because of mixed pages, & more recently someone found a HARD Corps #7 with duplicate pages. I haven't checked mine yet to see if I have one or not. The Sandman issue you mentioned used to go for big bucks. There were also misnumbered pages in an issue of the mini-series "Death: The High Cost Of Living" from DC. I forget if it was #2 or #3. DC replaced these with properly sequenced corrected issues. With GOOD GUYS #2, if I recall correctly, the publisher just wanted to give Defiant a credit for their blunder, but Jim insisted it be reprinted. It was a big deal at the time. It was around the time that Marvel was trying to sue Defiant out of business because of their Marvel UK "Plasmer" title. Defending himself on this legal front cost Defiant $200,000 to win. I think Shooter had a zero tolerance for bullshit at the time. Maybe JayJay knows more about this?---Steve |
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Post by VaultKeeper on Nov 28, 2004 15:46:46 GMT -5
Oh, & I have the Prudence & Caution Spanish Edition #2. I might eve have two copies. I'll post pics of it also. No need to remove it from the checklist!! |
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 28, 2004 16:45:32 GMT -5
Oh, & I have the Prudence & Caution Spanish Edition #2. I might eve have two copies. I'll post pics of it also. No need to remove it from the checklist!! If you'd like, send me a full size scan until I find mine. I won't have anything up this week as planned, but I'm going to make an illustrated checklist eventually. Defiant1 |
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 28, 2004 16:51:09 GMT -5
With GOOD GUYS #2, if I recall correctly, the publisher just wanted to give Defiant a credit for their blunder, but Jim insisted it be reprinted. It was a big deal at the time. It was around the time that Marvel was trying to sue Defiant out of business because of their Marvel UK "Plasmer" title. Defending himself on this legal front cost Defiant $200,000 to win. I think Shooter had a zero tolerance for bullnuts at the time. Maybe JayJay knows more about this?---Steve If they offered a credit, and the credit went towards reprinting, that would be the same thing as the publisher making good. I can't imagine the printer getting away with making DEFIANT pay for the error. If they offered a partial credit, Jim might have said that wasn't good enough. That I'd believe. $200,000 sounds low to me. I think it cost more, but I don't know why I think that. Defiant1 |
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Post by CORVETTEJIM1968 on Nov 28, 2004 18:11:51 GMT -5
Oh, & I have the Prudence & Caution Spanish Edition #2. I might eve have two copies. I'll post pics of it also. No need to remove it from the checklist!! this is the book im looking for the most right now.if you have an extra please let me know. |
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Post by knightt on Nov 28, 2004 18:14:17 GMT -5
And for those who are lost, this is what CorvetteJim says exist: DEFIANT Genesis #1 (without Comicfest banner) DEFIANT Genesis #1 (with Comicfest banner) DEFIANT Genesis #1 (with Comicfest banner & with card insert) Birth of the DEFIANT Universe #1 (reprints DEFIANT Genesis) Well I 'say it exists' as well because I was at CorvetteJim's house a month ago (and he to my house this weekend) and I have seen ALL of the aforementioned books that are listed above. So, does two person integrity count as redundancy enough to quality that this exists ? |
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Post by knightt on Nov 28, 2004 18:54:01 GMT -5
Just got in two scans of the Dark Dominion insert cards to the Defiant Genesis issue from CorvetteJim. Enjoy...   As you can see... stapled right in the center of the book. Thanks for sending these in Jim !!! |
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 28, 2004 21:50:54 GMT -5
Just got in two scans of the Dark Dominion insert cards to the Defiant Genesis issue from CorvetteJim. Enjoy... As you can see... stapled right in the center of the book. Thanks for sending these in Jim !!! That is some sloppy binding. The staple holes are flared pretty wide. Even that scan isn't good enough proof for me to include it. I'd want more history on where, how, and why it originated. I'd want to inspect the binding first-hand and read up more on what evidence is typical for restapling. I'm suspicious of any newly discovered Defiant collectibles. Too many doctored or repackaged configurations exist. Jeff Allender bought some Plasm binders off ebay and and the seller had taken the artwork from the 2nd Edition binder and placed it into a 1st edition binder. Jeff also had some binders listed on his site that were clearly repackaged from a retailer. Dealers will create "rare" collectibles if it means they can sell a comic that would sit otherwise. Plenty of people do it, especially card dealers. I knew card dealers that would pull chase card packs and replace the packs with cards that didn't have chase cards. They'd reseal the boxes with their own shrink wrap machine and sell them to customers who didn't know the difference. Greed makes people do some pretty dirty tricks. Good Guys #1.5 was included in the Diamond Comics Previews catalog from July of 1993 to June of 1994. There were usually a couple of pages released in each issue. The story takes place between Good Guys #1 & #2. It was later solicited for publication intact as a standalone comic, but that was one of the items that never came out. I own this color art piece: fire.prohosting.com/defiantc/Defiant/GG_art/01pt5_Good_Guys_art_pg7_color.htmlNighthawk owns this color art piece: fire.prohosting.com/defiantc/Defiant/GG_art/01pt5_Good_Guys_art_pg9_color.htmlJanet said this was some of her most intricate work. Defiant1 |
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Post by knightt on Nov 28, 2004 21:55:54 GMT -5
Awesome colors by JayJay...
I have the same book with the Dark Dominion inserts as well....
Shall I scan that in as well ? I will if it will be helpful...
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Post by knightt on Nov 28, 2004 22:00:45 GMT -5
My copy is pretty darn 'tight' and shows NO evidence of being tampered with. Now, I am not a grading expert, just saying this looks and feels really good. (I say the same thing about my wife... hubba hubba  ) |
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Post by knightt on Nov 29, 2004 21:36:05 GMT -5
Here is a scan of the Good Guys #2 Error Edition as sent by CorvetteJim... 1st, what the page is SUPPOSED to look like...  2nd, what the page LOOKS like...  3rd, in the faded issue, this page is missing the pic of Ed Polgardy on his page...  |
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 30, 2004 1:05:41 GMT -5
Awesome colors by JayJay... I have the same book with the Dark Dominion inserts as well.... Shall I scan that in as well ? I will if it will be helpful... Sure, I'm saving everything. I just can't promise I will do anything with it. Defiant1 |
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Post by knightt on Nov 30, 2004 9:29:00 GMT -5
I still have those pics that CorvetteJim scanned and the photos that I shot while at his house... do you still want me to send them to you also. I didnt send them before as you had gotten pissed at me (and still seems that way).
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Post by VaultKeeper on Nov 30, 2004 10:24:58 GMT -5
Did I miss something? I thought things were going well here. What's up, Dave? I'm always trying to get people to enjoy the Defiant & Broadway stuff, & this board has the potential to be much more active, if that's what you want.---Steve
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 30, 2004 11:16:05 GMT -5
Did I miss something? I thought things were going well here. What's up, Dave? I'm always trying to get people to enjoy the Defiant & Broadway stuff, & this board has the potential to be much more active, if that's what you want.---Steve He referencing some discussions which predates you joining the board. CorvetteJim wanted to donate some of his collectibles to my site but there was no way for me to allocate the time it would take to scan and do what he wanted. I was also debating the fate of my site at the time. I asked Knight if he wanted to help. He agreed. A month or so went by and my decision to downsize and shutdown the site solidified before I ever got the first contribution. Too many obligations at home were popping up. The family business was needing me over and above my regular full time job. My dad's health has been bad. Just too many reasons exist and pumping hours into maintaining my site cannot be justified. It was also becoming a fading interest since I've found some closure on everything. I'm still collecting any contributions and donations such as scans or images or scripts. If strings are attached then I don't want any contributions. If anyone is upset that they've donated and I haven't done anything with the stuff, then I absolutely don't want it. Making the site was a hobby. Nothing more. It's not my job or occupation. So, to answer Knight, you are perfectly welcome to send anything. I don't feel bound by any previous agreements or arrangements. My attitude about the things you posted has not changed. You crossed a line that I'm not even interested in discussing. If you send the images, they will be put with the rest and possibly they might appear on a DVD collection of everything I've acquired. I do not anticipate ever bringing back the site as it was. Defiant1 |
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Post by VaultKeeper on Nov 30, 2004 11:36:12 GMT -5
I know it took me a while to start posting here, but I'm more than willing to participate to the best of my abilities & knowledge. Sorry to hear about your Dad. Both of my parents & my wife's parents are sick & eldery. They need our attentions on a daily basis. Both of my wife's Grandparents died within 11 days of each other back in September. It makes you realize that life is way too short for petty grudges & people with a bullshit agenda. I hope my posts have been & continue to be interesting. I'm sure you'll let me know if I become boring.... |
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Post by knightt on Nov 30, 2004 13:24:02 GMT -5
My attitude about the things you posted has not changed. You crossed a line that I'm not even interested in discussing. Defiant1 Ya know... all this deal about crossing a 'line' is all in your head, bud. I NEVER even knew the circumstances of your departure from the Valiant boards, so when whats his face 'picked up his toys and left in a huff', my comments were for HIM and never intended towards YOU. If other's comments were, I cant speak for them but I dont think everyone sits around at night just waiting to slyly bash you on those boards. Personally, I have only EVER held you in high regard but all the negativity... is weary. "I have no interest in contacting creators"... "I wouldnt put this on my list until I have actually seen it"... "Nobody cares about this site"... and on and on... yeesh. There are a few of us now that are posting like mad !!! And "I" am having a BLAST, heck it even got myself and Vault-Keeper on really good terms and I have met with CorvetteJim TWICE in person !!!! We may be few, but we are strong like Ninja !!! You seem bitter, dude... maybe if you talk about it, you can get past it and have fun, just like we are. Can you try ? Please ? Whatever you think that you have on me, can you get over it ? PLEASE ? Man, I come home for lunch JUST TO CHECK THESE BOARDS !!! Don't kill it for me.... David... please. |
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Post by VaultKeeper on Nov 30, 2004 14:03:40 GMT -5
It's said that "Misery Love Company". But I've learned from my own admitted stupidity to keep things positive. And it's true, if you don't have anything nice to say, it's better left unsaid. Dave was gone from VC.com before I became a regular poster also, so I have no input on any of that.---Steve
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 1, 2004 1:30:21 GMT -5
You crossed a line that I'm not even interested in discussing. ... maybe if you talk about it, .... I anticipated your response and answered before you said anything. You didn't understand my gripe when I gave my explanation and you are in denial that anyone could have a problem with Greg. I could send you to an online record of my last exchange with Greg. In that exchange I itemized my gripes with him. Not even a week later, someone asked him on his own messageboard what my gripe was and he hedged around everything I said. Mysteriously, he'd forgotten we discussed it days earlier where I'd gone into detail. The only thing he got right in his reply was that I left by my own choice. For us to get along. You have to accept that I am not and will not be yoked to Greg or his ambition to be a spokesperson for the Valiant collecting fan base. My decision to leave his board was based on actions and decisions he made. You have to accept that it was not a whim or a joke. Failure to accept that will leave us at odds. I will not reward with kindness the harboring/shielding/defense of people who refuse to accept or respect my right to make a personal decision. ... even if my decision conflicts with their wishes and/or agenda. My bitterness is inspired by others who have no regard or respect for my right to disagree. My bitterness is not a mood. It is a chosen response to the passive aggression that has whittled away at my choices to find a comic that meets my quality expectations. It angers me that Jim Shooter is blacklisted in this industry. Even if I don't deem him as a saint ( some evidence supports that he isn't), he still produced some of the best d**n comics I ever read. My site exists because I was angry. I was angry that I'd bought a years worth of comics that were about to culminate into a huge climactic event...and the plug was pulled. I was angry that I'd wasted a year of my collecting hobby and income on half of a completed product... that never delivered the payload it was intended to delver. Would you give your kid a dog that was cut in half? Would you buy a car with no transmission if you knew it was impossible to get one? So yes, I'm angry and my anger was channeled into something that others found helpful and beneficial. The only difference is that others think my site disappearing is a loss. I see it all as a reminder. The room was dark, the light came on, the light went out. I invite people to be angry. I want you to be angry. I'm tired of people being depressed and doing nothing about it. I'm tired of the status quo defining the parameters. I'm tired of everyne thinking inside the box and expecting me to jump in. Each and every one of us have the ability to turn on a light in a dark room. That may be cliche, but it's a fact. Defiant1 |
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Post by VaultKeeper on Dec 1, 2004 10:21:50 GMT -5
Great post, Dave. We are brothers in spirit in many ways...
I feel the same about when the plug was pulled on Defiant. I was all geared up for the SCHISM crossover. Each issue drew you closer & closer to this climax which never came.
When Broadway was launched, the Broadway reps at a Diamond Distributor seminar promised that the same thing wouldn't happen to Broadway. I even asked "Why should retailer's take another chance after the shambles that Defiant wound up in?" They were very positive in their presentation, & definitely had me interested, but the plug was pulled on them even quicker than Defiant.
And then there was Daring Comics in 1999.....or should I say there wasn't Daring Comics in 1999...<sigh>
I enjoy Greg's website. It is nicely done & very informative for almost all levels of Valiant collecting. The fact that he has un-banned me shows me how fair he can be (considering how rude I was), & how he tries to let the forum be a free-minded area. I personally just needed to ignore the negative posts, which I do now. There's no sense in it.
Thanks again for having this messageboard & making me co-Moderator of the Valiant section. I've noticed a couple of new members joined since last night---Architect & Magnusr from Stockholm. Both are very interesting guys to converse with, IMO. Arch is doing the Solar #1 VcVVSS. I don't know if either collect Defiant or Broadway, (or Continuity), but I look forward to some great discussions.---Steve
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 1, 2004 12:39:23 GMT -5
I personally just needed to ignore the negative posts, which I do now. There's no sense in it. Negative posts are like a challenge. I love an excuse to abandon social etiquette. I've had bosses that try to play the nice guy and I've had bosses that just say what on their mind and piss everyone off. You always know where you stand when someone is venting and complaining. The people that stab you in the back are the people that are afraid to say exactly what is on their mind. Thanks again for having this messageboard & making me co-Moderator of the Valiant section. I've noticed a couple of new members joined since last night---Architect & Magnusr from Stockholm. Both are very interesting guys to converse with, IMO. Arch is doing the Solar #1 VcVVSS. I don't know if either collect Defiant or Broadway, (or Continuity), but I look forward to some great discussions.---Steve Those guys joined. Gosh. I had so much respect for Magnusr. I don't know what to think of him now?! I try to steer clear of "manufactured collectibles" and signed books. The first time I ever bought original art from Budd Root, he procedeed to sign it. I thought "why?" He'd already painstakingly drew every bit of pencil and ink on the page, how could an autograph add anything to that much personal input? But anyway, everyone is different and I know some people really like the personalization. Defiant1 |
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Post by VaultKeeper on Dec 1, 2004 13:10:02 GMT -5
I tend to look at signed books as 'manufactured keepsakes' for the fans who feel a special connection to the work with a signed book. Especially when the signing is done in person. It becomes a 'manufactured collectible' when it is bought for the sole pupose of speculation & resale, IMO.
The whole autograph thing takes on a different perspective whe someone asks YOU for an autograph. This has happened to me in bands I've been in, & it is an ultimate form of flattery to have someone connect to your art enough to desire sometihing personal as a fond rememberance.---Steve
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 1, 2004 13:27:30 GMT -5
I tend to look at signed books as 'manufactured keepsakes' for the fans who feel a special connection to the work with a signed book. Especially when the signing is done in person. It becomes a 'manufactured collectible' when it is bought for the sole pupose of speculation & resale, IMO. The whole autograph thing takes on a different perspective whe someone asks YOU for an autograph. This has happened to me in bands I've been in, & it is an ultimate form of flattery to have someone connect to your art enough to desire sometihing personal as a fond rememberance.---Steve There was a cartoon newspaper called Drawl which was published in Atlanta for awhile. The biggest flattery for me was when the owner/publisher wanted me to sign for him a copy of a different magazine that published my cartoon. He was a pro in my mind. I was just goofing around. The second biggest flattery for me was having another cartoonist for the magazine that published my cartoon draw my character dead center on a piece of art used for the cover of the magazine. It bothered me at first, but then I realized meant it as a tribute. The third biggest flattery was seeing my cartoon adjacent to a syndicated installment of "too Much Coffee Man". Keep in mind that I can't draw worth a d**n. I'll wear out an eraser trying to draw a straight line. Despite my poor art skill, my humor was just off color and demented enough to get quite a bit of attention. I signed about a dozen copies for people every month. My friend wrote for the magazine and nobody ever asked for his signature. I feel just as weird giving a signature as I do asking for one. You know you've broken a barrier when people who don't like your work ask for an autograph. Defiant1 |
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Post by knightt on Dec 1, 2004 13:38:33 GMT -5
Well I am glad that we got that all out in the open... Now lets enjoy comics !!!! And as a side note.... I uh, sign yearly evaluations. Does THAT count ? |
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 1, 2004 14:12:29 GMT -5
Well I am glad that we got that all out in the open... Now lets enjoy comics !!!! And as a side note.... I uh, sign yearly evaluations. Does THAT count ? Only if you are bettering the earnings of your subordinates. I sign my name in excess of 100 times a day. You'd have a better chance reading a child's scribbling with a crayon. Defiant1 |
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Post by VaultKeeper on Dec 1, 2004 14:33:05 GMT -5
The last thing I signed was the 25 copies of the VCB I copied. Ya know----Limited Edition Manufactured Keepsake. God bless Seaborn! He died much too young in that car wreck.--Steve
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) who collect comics with publisher's defects. Especially is it's a cover defect. I have a handful of various screw-ups. 
)