Shooter's ideal number of titles

[toddluck]

I remember Shooter stating what his ideal number of titles for a new company (Valiant, Defiant, ect) was in some interview but I can't find a mention of it anywhere now. Is my memory off? If not, what was the number?

[Defiant1]

toddluck said:

I remember Shooter stating what his ideal number of titles for a new company (Valiant, Defiant, ect) was in some interview but I can't find a mention of it anywhere now. Is my memory off? If not, what was the number?

I think that it was 8 titles. That would be manageable, but it would also be the amount necessary to achieve critical mass. I think you need "x" number of titles to sustain the staff necesary to run a real business. I would also guess that printers give price breaks on volume... but that's just a wild guess.

Defiant1

[toddluck]

I seem to recall the number being 12. I think 8 was what was needed to cover the company's costs ( I remember Shooter saying the Valaint Universe was created to cover the company's overhead).

At the end of a year and a half the Valiant Universe had 8 titles. If you count all the titles that were set up before Jim left, they would've had 12.


Defiant had 7 titles at the end of a year or so and, if all planned titles had come out, would've had 11 titles within their first two years.

Shooter said they delevoped 11 concepts for Broadway, it's hard to say how many were supposed to be published when, due to their constantly changing publishing plans.

For Daring comics Shooter said he hoped to eventually have 8 titles (but that was self publishing venture in a utterly devasted comic market). Two were initially announced.

[Quato]

toddluck said:

I seem to recall the number being 12. I think 8 was what was needed to cover the company's costs ( I remember Shooter saying the Valaint Universe was created to cover the company's overhead).

At the end of a year and a half the Valiant Universe had 8 titles. If you count all the titles that were set up before Jim left, they would've had 12.


Defiant had 7 titles at the end of a year or so and, if all planned titles had come out, would've had 11 titles within their two years.

Shooter said they delevoped 11 concepts for Broadway, it's hard to say how many were supposed to be published when, due to their constantly changing publishing plans.

For Daring comics Shooter said he hoped to eventually have 8 titles (but that was self publishing venture in a utterly devasted comic market). Two were initially announced.

You are probably correct. 8 would be a minimum, but not necessarily the optimum. I still think a high quality B&W from him could grow much faster than an attempt in color. It would have a far greater liklihood of being profitable.

Q

[toddluck]

I used to think 12 was a great idea. Its enough titles to be a universe with variety and to thuroughly explore the themes of the universe. But it's small enough that it's easy to come with that many decent developed concepts and find that many competent creative teams. Valiant was a good example of getting too big. Even without the Shooter factor, you can see a huge difference between Valaints first twelve titles and the last six. It's also concievable for someone to afford 8 to 12 titles.

But Crossgen got me rethinking that number. My wife collected them. She got the first 4 titles and even though our cash flow was very modest, that was fine. They added a couple more, okay. But it just kept growing. I think it got to about 12 titles with no end in sight. That's $36 a month JUST for her Crossgen comics (not to mention my six monthly comics and the two other series she followed!). It was just too much. She dropped all the titles but the two she liked the most.

4-6 titles seems much more realistic nowadays. You can actually put a really decent universe with only 4-6 titles. Milestone had 4 for a year and then upped it to 7. Protectors only had 4 books for their universe (until that Genesis mess). Impact started with 5 (and then slowly upped it to 7). Fireman Press had a nice little Universe with just two titles (Scud and La Cosa Nostriod, they did add a third book at the end but it only lasted two issues)

[toddluck]

double post deleted

[Quato]

toddluck said:

I used to think 12 was a great idea. Its enough titles to be a universe with variety and to thuroughly explore the themes of the universe. But it's small enough that its easy to come with that many decent developed concepts and find that many competent creative teams. Valiant was a good example of getting to big. Even without the Shooter factor, you can see a huge difference between Valaints first twelve titles and the last six. Its also concievable for someone to afford 8 to 12 titles.

But Crossgen got me rethinking that number. My wife collected them. She got the first 4 titles and even though our cash flow was very modest, that was fine. They added a couple more, okay. But it just kept growing. I think it got to about 12 titles with no end in sight. That's $36 a month JUST for her Crossgen comics (not to mention my six monthly comics and the two other series she followed!). It was just too much. She dropped all the titles but the two she liked the most.

4-6 titles seems much more realistic nowadays. You can actually put a really decent universe with only 4-6 titles. Milestone had 4 for a year and then upped it to 7. Protectors only had 4 books for their universe (until that Genesis mess). Impact started with 5 (and then slowly upped it to 7). Fireman Press had a nice little Universe with just two titles (Scud and La Cosa Nostriod, they did add a third book at the end but it only lasted two issues)

I just don't think Quebecor likes dealing with the small guys anymore. 4-6 books is a hassle when you have companies like Marvel & DC using your service.

Nobody wants the little jobs anymore. Everybody wants the big customers and the easy money.

Q

[toddluck]

quato said:

toddluck said:

I used to think 12 was a great idea. Its enough titles to be a universe with variety and to thuroughly explore the themes of the universe. But it's small enough that its easy to come with that many decent developed concepts and find that many competent creative teams. Valiant was a good example of getting to big. Even without the Shooter factor, you can see a huge difference between Valaints first twelve titles and the last six. Its also concievable for someone to afford 8 to 12 titles.

But Crossgen got me rethinking that number. My wife collected them. She got the first 4 titles and even though our cash flow was very modest, that was fine. They added a couple more, okay. But it just kept growing. I think it got to about 12 titles with no end in sight. That's $36 a month JUST for her Crossgen comics (not to mention my six monthly comics and the two other series she followed!). It was just too much. She dropped all the titles but the two she liked the most.

4-6 titles seems much more realistic nowadays. You can actually put a really decent universe with only 4-6 titles. Milestone had 4 for a year and then upped it to 7. Protectors only had 4 books for their universe (until that Genesis mess). Impact started with 5 (and then slowly upped it to 7). Fireman Press had a nice little Universe with just two titles (Scud and La Cosa Nostriod, they did add a third book at the end but it only lasted two issues)

I just don't think Quebecor likes dealing with the small guys anymore. 4-6 books is a hassle when you have companies like Marvel & DC using your service.

Nobody wants the little jobs anymore. Everybody wants the big customers and the easy money.

Q

Hard to believe anyone in the print business would turn down a paying customer but,if they do, you just go on to the next printer.

[Quato]

toddluck said:

quato said:

I just don't think Quebecor likes dealing with the small guys anymore. 4-6 books is a hassle when you have companies like Marvel & DC using your service.

Nobody wants the little jobs anymore. Everybody wants the big customers and the easy money.

Q

Hard to believe anyone in the print business would turn down a paying customer but,if they do, you just go on to the next printer.

I have no hard evidence that quebecor is turning people away, but I've seen several tidbits of info that imply to me they are making it more difficult for the small guys.

I also know from experience that our vendors show complete apathy towards small orders. Order 200 of a custom part and their eyes glow. Order 3 and it's 600% more expensive and they seem resentful that we don't need more.

Companies are really under a lot of pressure to reach double digit profit percentages. High profits aren't good enough, ROI (Return on Investment) is everything. It's all in the percentages.

Q