It's begining to Look A Lot Like Broadway...

[Bounty]

So I was browsing around at my Local Comic shop, and I saw this amazing cover. It was a 0 issue of a new book called Wildsiderz.

Story looks like a group of teens get suits of Holographic energy that make then nearly invincible, and help them fight crime. The images are so close to Knights on Broadway that I had to laugh when I saw them claiming "nothing like this has EVER been done before."

Any thoughts?

[Defiant1]

Bounty said:

So I was browsing around at my Local Comic shop, and I saw this amazing cover. It was a 0 issue of a new book called Wildsiderz.

Story looks like a group of teens get suits of Holographic energy that make then nearly invincible, and help them fight crime. The images are so close to Knights on Broadway that I had to laugh when I saw them claiming "nothing like this has EVER been done before."

Any thoughts?

The "z" in the name kind of makes me cringe a little.
The fictitious energy type makes me cringe a slight bit more. It makes me wonder if that references a "signature" energy form or a holgram based energy form (light). I guess I'd cut them some slack if the writing was good otherwise. As far as it being similar to Knights On Broadway... they might actually believe it is original. That's the bad thing about "creating". Two people can be inspired by the same cultural needs and influences to create otherwise similar inventions or concepts.

If anyone locally orders this (I doubt they will), I'll look through it. I don't trust any writers these days to step beyond the fodder that their peers are dishing out.

Defiant1

[Bounty]

It's being pushed by Wildstorm, now a subsiderary of DC, so I'm guessing it will be released far and wide this August. I know they got a cover on one of the industry magazines, I wasn't really paying that close of attention to whch though.

[toddluck]

Darnit.

The first post actually had me excited, it sounded really neat. And then I saw it...

www.dangergirl.com/

Shudder.

If he wants to take credit for that, then he can have it .

Maybe the story's good?

[Defiant1]

Bounty said:

It's being pushed by Wildstorm, now a subsiderary of DC, so I'm guessing it will be released far and wide this August. I know they got a cover on one of the industry magazines, I wasn't really paying that close of attention to whch though.

Interesting. J. Scott Campbell posted on a thread at Mark Millar's messageboard that linked to my Knights On Broadway content. There is evidence that some creators are not completely oblivious to the concepts.

Defiant1

[Defiant1]

The picture on the web page is horrid. Early Gen 13 issues were fun. This art is so bad it's distracting. Another thing...Where did the myth originate that kids feel a kinship to teenage heroes? I never thought "Wow... teens!" I think it's flat out stupid to keep making teams of teenage heroes.

Defiant1

P.S. I won't be picking this up. Campbell knew about KOB. This is a swipe.

[toddluck]

Defiant1 said:

The picture on the web page is horrid. Early Gen 13 issues were fun. This art is so bad it's distracting. Another thing...Where did the myth originate that kids feel a kinship to teenage heroes? I never thought "Wow... teens!" I think it's flat out stupid to keep making teams of teenage heroes.

Defiant1

Teen superheroes have been targeted at adults for a long time now (or at least that's who usually buys them). Even when I was in school I don't any know comic collecting kid who bought books on teen superheroes other than Generation X or something like that.

The books are usually really lame. The characters are so far from normal teens that real teenager can't identitify with them. Teens heroes are usually portrayed as dumber, weaker versions of their adult counterparts who spout out bad sex jokes continuiously. No one wants to read some watered down version of a real hero.

Wether you're 9 or 90 you probably buy superhero comics because the hero kicks ass. Why buy an issue of Superboy fighting a third rate loser when you can read about Superman going toe-to-toe with the likes of Doomsday and Darksied?

[Defiant1]

toddluck said:

Defiant1 said:

The picture on the web page is horrid. Early Gen 13 issues were fun. This art is so bad it's distracting. Another thing...Where did the myth originate that kids feel a kinship to teenage heroes? I never thought "Wow... teens!" I think it's flat out stupid to keep making teams of teenage heroes.

Defiant1

Teen superheroes have been targeted at adults for a long time now (or at least that's who usually buys them). Even when I was in school I don't any know comic collecting kid who bought books on teen superheroes other than Generation X or something like that.

The books are usually really lame. The characters are so far from normal teens that real teenager can't identitify with them. Teens heroes are usually portrayed as dumber, weaker versions of their adult counterparts who spout out bad sex jokes continuiously. No one wants to read some watered down version of a real hero.

Wether you're 9 or 90 you probably buy superhero comics because the hero kicks ass. Why buy an issue of Superboy fighting a third rate loser when you can read about Superman going toe-to-toe with the likes of Doomsday and Darksied?

Exactly.
I'll never forget walking out of one specific action adventure movie (can't remember which--maybe a James Bond movie) and my best friend says "he was not a hero, he got his ass kicked in every fight". My friend elaborated and I thought about. The star's only success in the movie was barely living by a thread after each fight. I've never looked at movies the ame since. My friend was right. A heero's job is to go in, kick ass and prove why he's the hero. I got disgusted wayching the last Star Wars movie because Obiwan was losing every battle he fought up until Darth vader was spawned. At the point when Darth Vader should have been proving why he was such a bad ass, he was losing every fight he entered.

Hulk was always my favorite Marvel character. If he wasn't winning a fight, just piss him off some more. That's all it took. That's a hero. My favorite scene in Unity was when Sting got pissed off and almost single handedly ended it all while leaving a path of destruction in the process.

Defiant1

[Todd Luck]

Defiant1 said:

toddluck said:

Teen superheroes have been targeted at adults for a long time now (or at least that's who usually buys them). Even when I was in school I don't any know comic collecting kid who bought books on teen superheroes other than Generation X or something like that.

The books are usually really lame. The characters are so far from normal teens that real teenager can't identitify with them. Teens heroes are usually portrayed as dumber, weaker versions of their adult counterparts who spout out bad sex jokes continuiously. No one wants to read some watered down version of a real hero.

Wether you're 9 or 90 you probably buy superhero comics because the hero kicks ass. Why buy an issue of Superboy fighting a third rate loser when you can read about Superman going toe-to-toe with the likes of Doomsday and Darksied?

Exactly.
I'll never forget walking out of one specific action adventure movie (can't remember which--maybe a James Bond movie) and my best friend says "he was not a hero, he got his ass kicked in every fight". My friend elaborated and I thought about. The star's only success in the movie was barely living by a thread after each fight. I've never looked at movies the ame since. My friend was right. A heero's job is to go in, kick ass and prove why he's the hero. I got disgusted wayching the last Star Wars movie because Obiwan was losing every battle he fought up until Darth vader was spawned. At the point when Darth Vader should have been proving why he was such a bad ass, he was losing every fight he entered.

Must have been watching a different movie than me. Obi Wan pretty effortlessly kicked ass up until the fight with Vader. Dooku got in a cheap shot that knocked him out in one scene, but that was it. He easily defeated Grevious (especially impressive if you've seen Clone Wars and know how effortlessly Grevious can defeat a Jedi).

Annie kicked ass throught out the movie too. The ending battle between Obi and Annie showed them very evenly matched. If Annie hadn't made a stupid move who knows what could've happened?

But the point is that Annie never became anywhere near as powerful as he could have. He was still just learning. He squandered all that potential when he abandoned his "education" as a Jedi and then got f-ed up in the lava.

As Lucas points out in the commentary to the original trilogy, that the Vader we see in those movies is a fallen man, a pale shadow of what he could've been. Hence, why he's scared of Palpatine and needs Luke's help to overthrow him, atleast according to Lucas.

[Defiant1]

I think there are plenty of examples in the beginning to back my point of view. The elevator scene, the hallway scene where they get captured. Every scene that required a hero, Obi-Wan was not the person taking lead or creating the way out. You play down the non-role Obi-Wan had in his fight with Dooku. If not for being dragged out unconscious he'd have been left for dead. I don't want a hero like that saving my life. In the battle I saw with Grevious he was hanging by a ledge by his fingertips and just got lucky that a blaster was nearby. A hero should be resourceful, but luck is not the same as being resourceful. The only scene where he proved himself was when he defeated Vader. There was no luck involved. For some reason Dath Vader lost all his fighting edge when the Dark Force started taking over his mind. I can deal with that, but it still undermines the fear which Vader is supposed to instill. The flip in leadership roles happened at the wrong time.

I want villains that are just as resourceful as heroes. Look at the icy cold relentless resolve of the T-1000 terminator or the Terminatrix. One of my favorite lines in a movie was Michael Behn saying 'You can't reason with it. It doesn't feel pity. It doesn't know pain. And it won't stop until you are dead." from the first Terminator movie. Batty's resolve in Bladerunner.

Winning a battle does not make someone a hero. A hero is more than that. A hero has providence.

Defiant1

[xohobojoe]

toddluck said:

Darnit.

The first post actually had me excited, it sounded really neat. And then I saw it...

www.dangergirl.com/

Shudder.

If he wants to take credit for that, then he can have it .

Maybe the story's good?

Not only is that a shameless lift of KoB, they look like a poor-man's Fantastic Four, IMO. Guess with the movie coming out, J. Scott decided to attempt to cash in.

[xohobojoe]

I had a hard time seeing Anakin as evil in ROTS, just easily manipulated by Palpatine (the best protrayed role in the movie, IMO.) I was pulling for something along the lines of "once Anakin goes to the Dark Side, Vader is a emotive badass who lets everyone have it." I think that would have redeemed the acting in AoTC also, but Vadar was just as wooden as Anakin. Had it worked out, it might have seemed that Anakin's "dis-ease" with everyone was due to him supressing the growing evil. It would have given him the tenacity of the T-1000, etc.. But it just felt like he was a puppet being shoved around in a confused state by Palpatine. The thing I always liked about Vader as a villian was that he supposedly chose the Dark Side; not that he was pushed into the decsion. It also made his redemption a lot bigger deal -- Not some "I was misunderstood and always wanted to be good" but an actual choice of his son over his "father-figure."

BTW, if you haven't seen Clone Wars, you're missing out, guys. It does make Obi Wan's fight with Grevious a lot more intense and less like the typical Wolverine "get my butt stomped until the last second" scrap. For those of you in the know, was Greivous connected to the armored "octopus" alien that kept beating the fool outta everyone?

[toddluck]

xohobojoe said:

I had a hard time seeing Anakin as evil in ROTS, just easily manipulated by Palpatine (the best protrayed role in the movie, IMO.) I was pulling for something along the lines of "once Anakin goes to the Dark Side, Vader is a emotive badass who lets everyone have it." I think that would have redeemed the acting in AoTC also, but Vadar was just as wooden as Anakin. Had it worked out, it might have seemed that Anakin's "dis-ease" with everyone was due to him supressing the growing evil. It would have given him the tenacity of the T-1000, etc.. But it just felt like he was a puppet being shoved around in a confused state by Palpatine. The thing I always liked about Vader as a villian was that he supposedly chose the Dark Side; not that he was pushed into the decsion. It also made his redemption a lot bigger deal -- Not some "I was misunderstood and always wanted to be good" but an actual choice of his son over his "father-figure."

I don't know. I don't see where Anakin was confused in the movie itself (now if you're reading the novel, that's a little different).

It was pretty straight forward. He loved Padme. In order to save Padme he had to ally himself with the only person who had the knowledge to save her (Palpatine). In doing so he did a helluva lot things he didn't like, but he choose to do every single last one of them. That's what was him tearing him up inside until the final confrontation with padme and Obi Wan. By then he seemed to be trying to really convince himself that what he was doing was "right" and that he was in control over the situation (I can kill Palpatine any time I want to). Maybe he really believed it at that point.

Of course, his motivation shifts a little bit after the "Frankin-Vader" scene. With nothing left of his life or humanity to go back to, he embraces his role. In the original movies he's mere a shadow of himself and fear of the Emperor is a huge motivating factor for him. The end of ROTJ is him finally saying "I no longer care if I live or die, their are things going on here that are bigger than that." He sacrificed himself so Padme's son and the Republic could live. It works pretty well for me.

[Defiant1]

Several things made the movie lose integrity for me.

1) The beginning battle was too busy. The laser blasts and flight trails were too diverse in colors. There were too many things you didn't see in the other movies. You can say "why does that matter?", but it wasn't consistent with the other movies and it was a prequel. I would have liked to see the confrontations start looking like the battles we saw in Episode 4.

2) Palpatine relying sole on the jedi to save him. Letting Dooku die at the beginning was fine, but it's too much of a stretch to believe he'd stand motionless as the ship was going down. They should have shown him helping the Jedi at least once out of their view. Actually, I have problems whenever an oxygen seal is broken on a space craft and people just hold there breath to survive. It completely ignores the pressure difference and the behavior of natural physics. It's kind of like the way no circuit breakers exist in the future. Electricity just pops and crackles dangerously without a circuit breaker tripping.

3) Too many stupid robot scenes at the beginning. We've seen it enough. This movie was not made for kids. At least 2/3rds of those scenes belong on the cutting room floor. Too much dialogue was wasted talking about R2. It's been drilled home that he's resourceful already.

4) The shift from "I'm not sure" to "lets kill puppies".... well children... was too drastic. It took a second time watching it to catch the justification. They needed to play up Palpatines last phrase before he went off to do it. His last phrase was something to the effect... 'you need to kill all the Jedi if you want to be strong enough. That needed to be a moment of stress for him. It would've helped the plot if he did gain power for a short period after doing it.

5) the franken-vader scene was horrid... even laughable.

6) Annikan telling Padme she was beautiful at the one point in the movie where she looked the ugliest.

7) Darth should have been kicking Obiwan's butt at the end. He'd beat Dooku earlier and even Yoda was struggling against Dooku. If Obiwan was to get lucky and win... that was the place.

8) Lava spraying everywhere, yet conveniently missing them. All it would take is one stray speck of that lava to kill either of them. It would have burnt straight through them.

On the other hand, there were some moments that really shine.

1) Grevious attacking with 4 light sabers.

2) Obi-wan's speech to Annikan after he beat him.

3) The episode 4 music kicking in when Luke was handed to his uncle.

4) Those two legged walkers...I love those things.

5) Yoda. Sentence structure backwards yes it is.

Overall I thought the movie was okay. The Empire Strikes Back will always be my favorite. After that I guess I liked Episode 2 and then Episode 4 --the first one.

I saw the first Star Wars movie at a drive-in theater somewhere in Pennsylvania. Probably near Philadelphia. We were on vacation visiting my Uncle. It's kind of weird to think back how much of a rush that was. I'm no die-hard Star wars fan, but it's still cool to see a basic plot really work like it did.

Defiant1

[Strannik]

As someone who was a teenager not that long ago, I must say that I like teenage superheroes - when they're done right (and that's a huge if on itself). I bought Wildsiderz #0 and so far, I'm not impressed. Not because of the potrayal of the kids (which is actually not that bad), but because the writing seems questionable to say the least.

Then again, I could be wrong.

[Strannik]

On additional note, I don't see much resemblance to KoB safe for superficial simularities. I also happened to like this art style, but that's just me.

[Defiant1]

Strannik said:

As someone who was a teenager not that long ago, I must say that I like teenage superheroes - when they're done right (and that's a huge if on itself). I bought Wildsiderz #0 and so far, I'm not impressed. Not because of the potrayal of the kids (which is actually not that bad), but because the writing seems questionable to say the least.

Then again, I could be wrong.

I'm confident that if you questioned the writing-- then it is questionable. The summary above and the cover art was enough to scare me away.

Defiant1

[toddluck]

Strannik said:

On additional note, I don't see much resemblance to KoB safe for superficial simularities. I also happened to like this art style, but that's just me.

He usually has solid layouts but I cringe at how he draws humans. Just not my thing.