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Post by CORVETTEJIM1968 on Nov 25, 2004 9:21:50 GMT -5
ok i have seen 4 variations of this book.
1 defiant genesis (i have only seen one copy of this version)
2 defiant genesis with comicfest `93 logo and came in bag with a defiant logo at the bottom right corner
3 same as 2 but this time there is a dark dominion 4 card uncut promo sheet inserted
4 almost the same as 1 but now its called the origin of the defiant universe and some text here and there are a little different
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 25, 2004 17:56:00 GMT -5
ok i have seen 4 variations of this book. 1 defiant genesis (i have only seen one copy of this version) 2 defiant genesis with comicfest `93 logo and came in bag with a defiant logo at the bottom right corner 3 same as 2 but this time there is a dark dominion 4 card uncut promo sheet inserted 4 almost the same as 1 but now its called the origin of the defiant universe and some text here and there are a little different Jim, Were the cards bound into item 3 or were they just included as a seperate item? If anything comes back online at all, it will mainly be a streamlined listing of the comics and a comics checklist. I've lost interest in some of the games people have played. Non-Defiant and non-Broadway items in my collection will be getting my attention in my spare time. I'd planned on putting something up this week while on vacation, but more urgent issues surfaced. It may have to wait until Christmas. If that window of opportunity closes, it closes indefinitely. Defiant1 |
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Post by CORVETTEJIM1968 on Nov 25, 2004 20:56:31 GMT -5
Jim, Were the cards bound into item 3 or were they just included as a seperate item? Defiant1 the dark dominion insert was attached with the staples that bind the book. |
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 25, 2004 22:51:36 GMT -5
the dark dominion insert was attached with the staples that bind the book. Odd. I've never heard of that. Any idea where it was distributed? Defiant1 |
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Post by CORVETTEJIM1968 on Nov 27, 2004 10:26:07 GMT -5
my best guess would be since it has the comicfest `93 logo on the cover it was distributed there.
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Post by Defiant1 on Nov 27, 2004 12:11:24 GMT -5
my best guess would be since it has the comicfest `93 logo on the cover it was distributed there. I can't find any fault in your logic. I guess the obvious answer just seemed too obvious. Now I wonder if both versions had variations and who is going to add that information to their ad if they are selling the comics. Probably nobody. Defiant1 |
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Post by johnpaulbill on Dec 1, 2004 22:32:19 GMT -5
Hi. I have a question. I have a Defiant:Genesis #1 with no price, autographed by Shooter. There is no Philly Convention thing on it. What kind of print did this book have? Is it worth much? Just curious. Thanks. jp
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 1, 2004 23:56:33 GMT -5
Hi. I have a question. I have a Defiant:Genesis #1 with no price, autographed by Shooter. There is no Philly Convention thing on it. What kind of print did this book have? Is it worth much? Just curious. Thanks. jp I have no print run info on that comic, but it's safe to say fewer of those come up for sale. We think it was sold on the Home Shopping Network. Defiant1 |
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Post by knightt on Dec 2, 2004 0:07:44 GMT -5
Hi. I have a question. I have a Defiant:Genesis #1 with no price, autographed by Shooter. There is no Philly Convention thing on it. What kind of print did this book have? Is it worth much? Just curious. Thanks. jp We chatted about this at length tonight... and I got a scan of it.... very nice.  |
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 2, 2004 1:51:50 GMT -5
We chatted about this at length tonight... and I got a scan of it.... very nice. That guy "Shoop" writes on everything! Doesn't he know it devalues comics to write on thm?! Defiant1 |
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Post by knightt on Dec 2, 2004 19:56:55 GMT -5
That guy "Shoop" writes on everything! Doesn't he know it devalues comics to write on thm?! Defiant1 Why Defiant1... is that HUMOR ? Had to giggle my 'un'flaming ass off again. hehehehe |
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 2, 2004 22:20:28 GMT -5
Why Defiant1... is that HUMOR ? Had to giggle my 'un'flaming ass off again. hehehehe I wouldn't joke about something serious like that. This "shoop" guy has written all over some of my comics. I don't know how he gets around like he does. I have a pink Harbinger that someone has written some obscure form of sexual slang on the cover. I had never seen the phrase "Lap Ham" before. Defiant1 |
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Post by technique on Dec 16, 2004 10:06:39 GMT -5
ok i have seen 4 variations of this book. 1 defiant genesis (i have only seen one copy of this version) 2 defiant genesis with comicfest `93 logo and came in bag with a defiant logo at the bottom right corner 3 same as 2 but this time there is a dark dominion 4 card uncut promo sheet inserted 4 almost the same as 1 but now its called the origin of the defiant universe and some text here and there are a little different It appears that this is also the order for most rare to most common. I have only seen 3 and 4 with 4 being as common as dirt. Is 2 really that rare? |
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 16, 2004 10:54:03 GMT -5
It appears that this is also the order for most rare to most common. I have only seen 3 and 4 with 4 being as common as dirt. Is 2 really that rare? -Rob #4 is extremely common. It was cheap and it could be ordered by retailers. They ordered heavy. I thought I had #2 which I consider common. Maybe i have #3 and just never paid attention to the middle. If #1 was only sold on the home shopping network, it might be common, just very tough to find. Most of that HSN stuff sold in big quantities, but it sells to people who don't know what they are really buying. Defiant |
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Post by technique on Dec 16, 2004 15:27:50 GMT -5
#4 is extremely common. It was cheap and it could be ordered by retailers. They ordered heavy. I thought I had #2 which I consider common. Maybe i have #3 and just never paid attention to the middle. If #1 was only sold on the home shopping network, it might be common, just very tough to find. Most of that HSN stuff sold in big quantities, but it sells to people who don't know what they are really buying. Defiant OK, so 1 is super rare while 4 is super common. I have not seen the bagged version (2) so it must not be that common. So my questions are: -Does the bagged version have the cards as well so that the only difference is the bag? -Were they both distributed at ComicFest? -If not then which one was not, and how was it distributed? -Which one is truly more rare and/or valuable/collectable? Question regarding the Plasm binders. Is there really any difference between the Premiere/Second edition binders and the reissue of each? That is, other than someone taking the time to insert the cards? My guess is that the only difference is the back cover offer did not come with the reissue. Thoughts? |
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 16, 2004 17:15:54 GMT -5
OK, so 1 is super rare while 4 is super common. I have not seen the bagged version (2) so it must not be that common. So my questions are: -Does the bagged version have the cards as well so that the only difference is the bag? -Were they both distributed at ComicFest? -If not then which one was not, and how was it distributed? -Which one is truly more rare and/or valuable/collectable? Question regarding the Plasm binders. Is there really any difference between the Premiere/Second edition binders and the reissue of each? That is, other than someone taking the time to insert the cards? My guess is that the only difference is the back cover offer did not come with the reissue. Thoughts? Since this was a promotional comic and we have no distributor information to reference, we have no basis for saying one is more rare than the other. I would not call any of them super rare. The bag shouldn't be a major issue. The comics were given out at the Philadelphia convention with the bag. That's how they were distributed. The bag is the same type as those used on the VVSS signed Valiant Comics. It's a 2 or 3mil "Comic Defense UltraPro" bag. It's a thick polypropylene bag, NOT MYLAR. It's branded with a Defiant Comics logo. The bags tend to split and crack on the seams and no matter what kind or archival protection you use, they are subject to deterioration and they are not any good for archival storage of your comic. I only own one copy of one type of this comic. It has the banner. It has the UltraPro bag and it does not have a card insert. I can't really say whether all the incarnations of the comic had this bag or not. I can't say how many had the card insert or didn't. I can't even say the manner by which they were distributed. One member of the board does recall the non-banner version of Defiant Genesis being sold on a Home Shopping Network. I knew Jim had appeared on the show, but I didn't see his appearance. I don't think they would have had a problem selling the comic. Those shows are pretty experienced at hyping products. They have people in the background feeding the announcer cues on which words make the phones light up and they have the sales pitch down to an art form. We know Mile High Comics has had this for sale since the begginning. It's possible some were made with the card insert and distributed through Mile High. All of this is blind speculation. One thing we all agree upon is that a non-comicfest banner cover is the most obscure version to find for sale. Even if there are thousands of them out there, that would not shock me. The Home Shopping Network would connect to a completely different audience than the comic shops and most collectors rely on comic shops to buy their collectible comics. Most of the people selling comics online are not going to be the people who sat around buying high priced manufactured collectibles in the 90's. Comic shops aren't trying to buy up back issues of Defiant Comics and they don't care whether different versions exist or not. The only reason you will see this comic ever sell for above a few dollars is that many collectors did not have an easy way to acquire it. My guess is that there is a good suplly of all versions, but you might have a harder time finding the one without the banner. Things to know: 1) It's not a comic story. It is text based content that supplies background information about the universe. It does feature background art, but the art is not telling a story. 2) The text content is available in the $1.50 reprint comic that was solicited much later. 3) No version has jumped ahead of the others and commanded higher prices. Sellers treat them pretty much the same and may not know there are different versions. As far as the binders go: There is no evidence that the River Group ever reissued the binders as sets. There is no evidence that any of the other original distributors did. Any sets you see are released by unrelated retailers trying to make the original product more desireable. They are not "official releases". It would be no different than you putting to gether a bunch of sets and selling them yourself. The artwork and configuration would vary depending on what the seller had. As far as I'm concerned official "reissues" worthy of mention don't exist. Obviously people have reissues, but they aren't "official". The 1st edition binders are labels as such and so are the comics inside. The 2nd edition binders are labeled as such and the so is the Spletterball comic inside. Dishonest or confused sellers are sometime swapping the artwork between the 1st and 2nd edition binders and trying to pass them off as variants. This is deceptive and you should avoid any sellers doing that. The third edition binders are indeed far more obscure. They were sold through Revco drug stores, not comic shops. They do not have the splatterball comic and they do have different artwork in the front and back. The 2nd edition binder have been scorned by just about everyone except he collectors that couldn't afford the 1st edition binders. Defiant1 |
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Post by technique on Dec 17, 2004 9:35:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the detailed response.
OK. So it sounds like the card/no card thing is much like Valiant's Magnus 0 so long as there truly are no other differences between the two. So like the Magnus 0, regardless of print run for each, the one with the cards would be considered more valuable simply because it can be "converted" to the no card version easily.
Can anyone confirm that there are no other differences between the two?
You're right about the binders, of course. The reissues are not "official" releases, but simply the originals that someone (and not an "official" someone) has taken the time to insert the cards into. IMO that makes the "reissues" more attractive since they come with some of the level one or two cards. The down side is that they normally do not come with the extras (back cover offer) that the originals came with.
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 17, 2004 9:43:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the detailed response. OK. So it sounds like the card/no card thing is much like Valiant's Magnus 0 so long as there truly are no other differences between the two. So like the Magnus 0, regardless of print run for each, the one with the cards would be considered more valuable simply because it can be "converted" to the no card version easily. Can anyone confirm that there are no other differences between the two? You're right about the binders, of course. The reissues are not "official" releases, but simply the originals that someone (and not an "official" someone) has taken the time to insert the cards into. IMO that makes the "reissues" more attractive since they come with some of the level one or two cards. The down side is that they normally do not come with the extras (back cover offer) that the originals came with. I was going to compare it to Magnus #0, but my response was already quite lengthy. CORVETTEJIM would have to reveal if there are any other differences. I can't imagine there would be. I advise people to buy complete binders off of ebay when chase cards are present rather than trying to build a set yourself. Unless you like wasting money and experiencing the thrill of opening packs, buying a complete binder is the way to get a deal and make the process whole process more simple. Defiant1 |
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Post by knightt on Dec 17, 2004 11:52:39 GMT -5
The difference is VERY simple... one book has cards stapled in the middle of it, the other... does not.
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 17, 2004 14:01:34 GMT -5
The difference is VERY simple... one book has cards stapled in the middle of it, the other... does not. I forgot that you'd picked one up. thanks. Defiant1 |
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 17, 2004 20:14:11 GMT -5
AYUP, and CorvetteJim has a few of these same ones as well... unless we are victim to a huge elaborately engineered hoax probably brought about by DC or Marvel trying to shame the Defiant name by inserting said cards into this book to create a false 'variant' thereby bringing about the end of the world through the total destruction of free world trade. I'd like to know the background. I don't understand why they'd deem it worthy to print two covers let alone make the ones with and without card. It's all just excess, but that was common with Defiant. Defiant1 |
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Post by knightt on Dec 17, 2004 21:54:49 GMT -5
I would like to know where they came from as well...
CorvetteJim ?
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Post by CORVETTEJIM1968 on Dec 18, 2004 10:11:42 GMT -5
i bought both of the banner versions around 93-94 from key comics.at one time he said he had the dark dominion insert version at $600.00 and the non insert version at $300.00 well i wanted them bad both of them.when i met robert (key comics) he had the prices at $60 and $70 and thats how much i paid.maybe you can contact robert on the web he sells all mail order out of his house and has been doing it for a long time that way.he is very knowledgable in the comic world.btw the two versions are identical except the insert.
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Post by knightt on Dec 18, 2004 11:28:56 GMT -5
As I have never seen the insert anywhere else except this book, I would believe that these came from Defiant.
Thoughts ?
I know that the River Group was producing stuff like crazy so this doesnt surprise me to find 'odd stuff'.
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 18, 2004 12:50:57 GMT -5
As I have never seen the insert anywhere else except this book, I would believe that these came from Defiant. Thoughts ? I know that the River Group was producing stuff like crazy so this doesnt surprise me to find 'odd stuff'. Sometimes retailers will work out deals with publishers to make special packages. I've never seen any of these go for triple digits. Scary. Defiant1 |
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Post by knightt on Dec 18, 2004 14:10:21 GMT -5
Retailers as in LCS owners or on a larger scale ?
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 18, 2004 15:29:46 GMT -5
Retailers as in LCS owners or on a larger scale ? Both technically. Larger or assertive retailers will approach publishers and offer to buy a certian level of product in exchange for exclusive deals. Dynamic Forces is a prime example. It could be an intermediate distributor, a large retailer, or an assertive and bold small guy. It's cheaper and easier for a publisher to do a signed comic, but if the offer (money) is right, you can see variant covers or other slight variations. Defiant could have done it on their own. If the cards were underprinted or just too darn expensive, they could have opted to make two versions. Defiant1 |
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Post by knightt on Dec 18, 2004 23:15:02 GMT -5
So, we do not have any official numbers on things like this nor a definitive answer on just WHAT was produced ?
How many of the Plasm TPBs were distributed... 1,000 ? But who put these out ?
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Post by dellamorte on Dec 19, 2004 12:02:29 GMT -5
I have 3 copies with the comic fest logo, two with the card insert and one without. I'm pretty sure I picked up all 3 at the show when they were handed out.
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Post by Defiant1 on Dec 19, 2004 12:11:40 GMT -5
So, we do not have any official numbers on things like this nor a definitive answer on just WHAT was produced ? How many of the Plasm TPBs were distributed... 1,000 ? But who put these out ? Virtually all of my Defiant number are "guesses" based on the interpolation of data. There was no online data available for the TPB or the GN. The lack of data means I have nothing to interpolate. The TPB was solicited just like all the other comics, but the number were tracked differently by the Diamond comics (the primary distributor). Defiant1 |
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