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Dec 13, 2004 16:15:18 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 13, 2004 16:15:18 GMT -5
Just finished reading Warriors of Plasm and Dark Dominion. Currently reading War Dancer...
Warriors of Plasm - WOW, wish there was more
Dark Dominion - hmmm, what was that about again ?
War Dancer - so far a pretty good WWF read
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Dec 13, 2004 17:06:57 GMT -5
Post by Todd Luck on Dec 13, 2004 17:06:57 GMT -5
War Dancer - so far a pretty good WWF read LOL I did like the idea of wrestling super heroes and villians, though War Dancers slow-to-develop personality made him a little hard to identify with 'til the last issue. Still I loved issue 2 (a classic fight) and the final issue. All of Plasm was great ;D. I wish they had gotten a writer on Dark Dominion who was more used to writing complex stories. The simplistic slam bang action was good, but didn't do the massive concept justice. Plus Micheal Alexander came off a little flat, something he didn't do when Shooter wrote him in Dark Dominion 0. Still, it was a solid book and the Lurk issues were truely inspired.
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Dec 13, 2004 19:56:14 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 13, 2004 19:56:14 GMT -5
Yes with a lof of issues that Shooter oversees or just plain writes, there is that 'oh man, can't believe that we are reading about this' kind of topics. Which just reminds everyone of the darkness in mankinds souls.
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Dec 14, 2004 0:08:51 GMT -5
Post by depluto on Dec 14, 2004 0:08:51 GMT -5
I just finished War Dancer. The art stood out more than the story to me. Striking.
I'm on Dogs of War right now, just finished the first two. Rough stuff, although the politics are definitely pre 9-11.
I'll have to reread my WOPs next; it's been 10 years since I cracked them open.
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Dec 14, 2004 0:33:34 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 14, 2004 0:33:34 GMT -5
OK, finished War Dancer tonight... left me wanting more. The Billy Ballistic character while, kid like could really turned out to be something cool. I dont know where War Dancer was going but it could have turned out to be grand. I believe the story was to turn out where he lost his powers, got into wresting (oh lord) and then went onto greater things.... I have to ask 'those in the know' where this was all going.
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Dec 14, 2004 2:06:07 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 14, 2004 2:06:07 GMT -5
OK, finished War Dancer tonight... left me wanting more. The Billy Ballistic character while, kid like could really turned out to be something cool. I dont know where War Dancer was going but it could have turned out to be grand. I believe the story was to turn out where he lost his powers, got into wresting (oh lord) and then went onto greater things.... I have to ask 'those in the know' where this was all going. I read a summary somewhere, but I don't remember where. From here: www.forgottenuniverses.com/defiant/defiantunreleased.htmlI see: WAR DANCER #7 by Shooter & Weiss Continued from Charlemagne #6 - the epic battle between Ahrq Tsolmec and Charles Smith! WAR DANCER #8 by Shooter & Weiss In the aftermath of Schism, the spirit of Ahrq Tsolmec's beloved Zahnrhee now lives in Sally Throckmorton's body - and one body ain't big enough for the both of them! But woman trouble is the least of War Dancer's worries: drained of his powers from battling Charlemagne during Schism, Ahrq's not a god anymore! What a time for the battle of his career...and life! WAR DANCER #9 by Shooter & Weiss Meet Lonestar Lawson, a cowboy hero like you've seldom seen before! Sally/Zahnree becomes the first dual-personality pregnant cosmic super-powered cowgirl. And you won't want to miss the beginning of Ahrq Tsolmec's epic trek back to his Mayan roots. November 1994 Note: Regular continuity issues of Dark Dominion #14, War Dancer #10 and Prudence & Caution #7 will be solicited next month for December shipping. Rather than ship books late, or throw together a substandard book, Defiant chose to give the creative teams on these titles a rest after the Schism crossover. Defiant1
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Dec 14, 2004 8:01:26 GMT -5
Post by Todd Luck on Dec 14, 2004 8:01:26 GMT -5
OK, finished War Dancer tonight... left me wanting more. The Billy Ballistic character while, kid like could really turned out to be something cool. I dont know where War Dancer was going but it could have turned out to be grand. I believe the story was to turn out where he lost his powers, got into wresting (oh lord) and then went onto greater things.... I have to ask 'those in the know' where this was all going. Shooter did say that Wart Dancer was going to get de-powered and become a wrestler. I can't remember which interview this is from, probably one of Petrilak's I think.
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Dec 14, 2004 12:43:43 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 14, 2004 12:43:43 GMT -5
I remember this as well... now if THAT were to happen, I can only see it going downhill at mach speed. I appreciated Billy Ballistic but that would only go so far. In a way, I am thinking that Shooter might have been using the WWF style wrestling as a 'HERE is how I should have done wrestling comics at Valiant'. He originally wanted to do superhero comics but got stuck with Nintendo and WWF... so ya know, maybe.
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Dec 14, 2004 14:49:55 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 14, 2004 14:49:55 GMT -5
I remember this as well... now if THAT were to happen, I can only see it going downhill at mach speed. I appreciated Billy Ballistic but that would only go so far. In a way, I am thinking that Shooter might have been using the WWF style wrestling as a 'HERE is how I should have done wrestling comics at Valiant'. He originally wanted to do superhero comics but got stuck with Nintendo and WWF... so ya know, maybe. This is just my guess, and none of my conversations with Pauline ever discussed this topic.... but... My thinking is that some people were aware of the money pro-wrestling was generating and they were aware of the exposure that TV ties could bring. The wrestling angle makes the writing chores a strain, but the potential payoff would have been great. Marketing is everything when selling a product. If you aren't thinking big you need to be drawing your own comics in your basement and stapling 8-1/2" x 11" sheets together by hand. Great comics that don't get seen might as well not exist. Defiant1
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Dec 14, 2004 16:03:15 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 14, 2004 16:03:15 GMT -5
You are absolutely but IHO, I just dont like a wrestling angle. I know that there is HUGE money in it but you dont see many or ANY comics that have a NASCAR angle these days.
I guess I am a purist in the comics arena. I like superhero comics and actually Defiant is my first real divergance into sci-fi.
I plan on reading CrossGen here soon to go the fantasy route but I always stay true to my roots. Superheroes...
What would you class Valiant comics ? I would say superhero but you only saw the RARE cape and spandex ? Looked more like athletic wear... it was superheroes but different.
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Dec 14, 2004 19:47:23 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 14, 2004 19:47:23 GMT -5
You are absolutely but IHO, I just dont like a wrestling angle. I know that there is HUGE money in it but you dont see many or ANY comics that have a NASCAR angle these days. I guess I am a purist in the comics arena. I like superhero comics and actually Defiant is my first real divergance into sci-fi. I plan on reading CrossGen here soon to go the fantasy route but I always stay true to my roots. Superheroes... What would you class Valiant comics ? I would say superhero but you only saw the RARE cape and spandex ? Looked more like athletic wear... it was superheroes but different. I'd say the superhero genre is a natural extension of the western hero genre. The cape and spandex just added mystery. The reader knew a secret that the world in the publication didn't. You don't need a cape and spandex. The Matrix Trilogy proved that. Sci-fi gives us superheroes without a costume all the time. Modern superhero comics are milking off of ideas writers were doing in the 40's. Jim spearheaded a move towards more realism. At Valiant... it worked. As long as you aren't insulting the sensibilities of the reader... it will work. People want to see good values rewarded. they want to see a hero overcome. They want hope. They want it because the world we live in lacks it. Valiant is made up of superheroes, but so are a lot of movies. James Bond is a superhero. In the last movie, he could make his car turn invisible. Whatever tag we give it depends upon how it is presented. Defiant1
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Dec 15, 2004 1:14:12 GMT -5
Post by depluto on Dec 15, 2004 1:14:12 GMT -5
Aw, geez, you didn't have to bring cowboys into it ...
I can't say I disagree, though. Superhero comics form the base of my favorite reads (I still pick up Spideys, FF, Iron Man weekly ... have for most of my life now), but the Vertigo line was what really got me looking at comics outside the superhero mainstream.
I still read Hellblazer, 100 Bullets, Stray Bullets ... that sort of thing.
But the best writers and artists do tend to gravitate to familiar names like Spidey, Batman and the like. That's where the money is, after all. And some of the big guns are done very well.
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Dec 15, 2004 1:15:44 GMT -5
Post by depluto on Dec 15, 2004 1:15:44 GMT -5
And speaking of WOP, which I just plowed through ... what the hell was that last issue all about? I haven't read Good Guys (seen the ads, so I recognized them).
Hell of a stopping point for a universe.
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Dec 15, 2004 1:30:52 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 15, 2004 1:30:52 GMT -5
Aw, geez, you didn't have to bring cowboys into it ... I can't say I disagree, though. Superhero comics form the base of my favorite reads (I still pick up Spideys, FF, Iron Man weekly ... have for most of my life now), but the Vertigo line was what really got me looking at comics outside the superhero mainstream. I still read Hellblazer, 100 Bullets, Stray Bullets ... that sort of thing. But the best writers and artists do tend to gravitate to familiar names like Spidey, Batman and the like. That's where the money is, after all. And some of the big guns are done very well. Well, one thing that annoys me is when the 'big gun' writers migrate towards the money (Spiderman, Superman, Batman) and then show no respect for the characters and try to mock them or destroy their history in a subtle backhanded way. The 'big gun' writers make me less interested in the well known characters. I can't stand Alan Moore's writing for that reason. He has subtle jabs at the genre in everything I've read by him including the few issues of Watchmen I've struggled to endure. The art form of comics is so deprived of writers that can juggle a complex plot (or long term story) that intelligent dialogue outweighs blatant disrespect for the genre by the writer being forced to work in it. Defiant1
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Dec 15, 2004 21:34:16 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 15, 2004 21:34:16 GMT -5
I really lean towards the superhero stuff for new comic books as well. I think it is a calling back to my childhood when that is all I was interested in (and Star Wars).
I think that there is some very good writing out there but these days there is not a lot of MEAT in the books. 23 pages of art and a few word/thought balloons.
Now I dont mind it so much from Valiant books (cause I bought all of mine for CRAZY cheap money) but I cant see forking out $2.50-$3.50 a book for about 8 minutes of entertainment. Sad thing is... they DO keep me coming back and I DO enjoy them. I just wish that there was more meat to chew on for a bit.
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Dec 15, 2004 23:51:46 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 15, 2004 23:51:46 GMT -5
I really lean towards the superhero stuff for new comic books as well. I think it is a calling back to my childhood when that is all I was interested in (and Star Wars). I think that there is some very good writing out there but these days there is not a lot of MEAT in the books. 23 pages of art and a few word/thought balloons. Now I dont mind it so much from Valiant books (cause I bought all of mine for CRAZY cheap money) but I cant see forking out $2.50-$3.50 a book for about 8 minutes of entertainment. Sad thing is... they DO keep me coming back and I DO enjoy them. I just wish that there was more meat to chew on for a bit. Read a few EC comics and you'll see how little meat comics today have. Defiant1
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Dec 16, 2004 0:26:49 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 16, 2004 0:26:49 GMT -5
Did they do MiracleMan ?
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Dec 16, 2004 1:29:02 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 16, 2004 1:29:02 GMT -5
They predate Miracleman by about 15 years(?). But, Mracleman is based on Fawcett's Captain Marvel if I'm not mstaken. Captain Marvel predates EC. Defiant1
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Dec 18, 2004 23:22:31 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 18, 2004 23:22:31 GMT -5
OK reading MiracleMan now... VERY wordy and very well written. Can't wait to see what happens... I did one of my no-nos and 'scanned' through issue #15... oh man, even though I dont know the whole story yet, there was a scene of MM and a boy... it got to me. I have six kids and just the thought of... well, if you have read it, you know.
War Dancer ended ok...
Starting Charlemagne and I really like the art and while I just started it, I am looking forward to reading even more.
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Dec 19, 2004 4:09:15 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 19, 2004 4:09:15 GMT -5
OK reading MiracleMan now... VERY wordy and very well written. Can't wait to see what happens... I did one of my no-nos and 'scanned' through issue #15... oh man, even though I dont know the whole story yet, there was a scene of MM and a boy... it got to me. I have six kids and just the thought of... well, if you have read it, you know. War Dancer ended ok... Starting Charlemagne and I really like the art and while I just started it, I am looking forward to reading even more. I have no interest in Miracleman. Never read it, but I think I own the first 8 and maybe some Gaiman issues. I bought them to sell, but I've been so disinterested I haven't put forth the effort. Like many of the comics that get praise... the scope and content of what I've seen just doesn't interest me. I haven't scanned over anything of Gaiman's or Moore's that interested me very long. Defiant1
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Dec 19, 2004 10:17:53 GMT -5
Post by depluto on Dec 19, 2004 10:17:53 GMT -5
Charlemagne was OK. I thought War Dancer was better, even if all the pro wrestling stuff seems odd 10 years later.
I just started on Good Guys. My first thought (after getting over all the ridiculous Image comics references ... the one bad guy offering the shoplifters $4 for every Image comic they could steal, WTF?) is that this was Harbinger redone.
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Dec 19, 2004 11:13:34 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 19, 2004 11:13:34 GMT -5
I just started on Good Guys. My first thought is that this was Harbinger redone. .... only younger to which I thought "Why?" The direction and motivation kept me bewildered. Defiant1
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Dec 20, 2004 22:14:52 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 20, 2004 22:14:52 GMT -5
Started Charlemagne... ok, now where in the hell does he get his powers from and how does he get his legs back ?
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Dec 21, 2004 2:16:37 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 21, 2004 2:16:37 GMT -5
Started Charlemagne... ok, now where in the hell does he get his powers from and how does he get his legs back ? Wishes can come true. Do you believe? Defiant1
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Dec 21, 2004 10:27:53 GMT -5
Post by depluto on Dec 21, 2004 10:27:53 GMT -5
Read some more of thr Good Guys. That little punk Ridgely made a tremendously good villain.
Nobody likes a smart-ass kid, and then to give one those kind of powers ... geez. And to keep the Harbinger thing going, the first thing he reminded me of was Harada.
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Dec 21, 2004 12:25:43 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 21, 2004 12:25:43 GMT -5
Read some more of thr Good Guys. That little punk Ridgely made a tremendously good villain. Nobody likes a smart-ass kid, and then to give one those kind of powers ... geez. And to keep the Harbinger thing going, the first thing he reminded me of was Harada. Kind of like Continuity's Toyboy gone bad. Defiant1
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Dec 21, 2004 13:54:48 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 21, 2004 13:54:48 GMT -5
Wishes can come true. Do you believe? Defiant1 Oh I do, I do, I DO !!!
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Dec 21, 2004 16:32:16 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 21, 2004 16:32:16 GMT -5
Did you tap your heels THREE times? Defiant1
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Dec 21, 2004 17:16:30 GMT -5
Post by knightt on Dec 21, 2004 17:16:30 GMT -5
Did you tap your heels THREE times? Defiant1 Why yes, Mother God... no wait, that's Valiant !! (doh!)
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Dec 21, 2004 17:56:49 GMT -5
Post by Defiant1 on Dec 21, 2004 17:56:49 GMT -5
Why yes, Mother God... no wait, that's Valiant !! (doh!) I gave incomplete instructions. I should have said to tap your heels 3 times while wearing your ruby red Santa Clause slippers and say aloud "There's no place like a real homepage, there's no place like a real homepage." The other option is grab a copy of Hustler and start hammering nails into concrete. That won't help create any miracles, but it might relieve some pent up frustration. Defiant1
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