Quato
Level 14
a.k.a. Defiant1
Quato a.k.a. Defiant1
Posts: 1,669
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Post by Quato on Aug 5, 2006 11:10:39 GMT -5
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Post by toddluck on Aug 5, 2006 14:13:46 GMT -5
Isn't "aren't selling DC and Marvel numbers" stretching it a bit? DC/Marvel cancelation level is what, 30,000 copies? 20,000 copies? vendor.diamondcomics.com/getting_started.asp#Sales%20MinimumsComics: Diamond’s benchmark for comic books solicited through Previews is $2,500 retail. Generally, we give comics series from three to five issues to reach that benchmark. If the series sells below $2,500 but exhibits a trend towards growth, we may continue carrying it. However, if we do not feel that a specific product will reach the benchmark, we reserve the right to discontinue carrying it. At 3 bucks a pop, that's less than 900 copies. That's a REALLY tiny press run. (And the guy who replied to the article claiming Diamond moved the bar the in the last year is wrong, I wrote down that figure from Diamond's website two years ago)
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Post by Brother J on Aug 5, 2006 18:13:48 GMT -5
No more Elvira?? Dang, she's hot, I'll miss her!
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Post by Defiant1 on Aug 5, 2006 20:00:41 GMT -5
I just get sick of companies only catering to the big guys. Part of running a distribution warehouse is supplying what's available to retailers. Why not charge a higher percentage to handle the low volume product rather than threatening cancellation. A B&W comic can make money with 900 copies. Why punish the 600 or so fans of this comic?
Maybe I should've done a Claypool checklist? Think if they'd been getting Michael Turner Variant covers on these?
Why aren't they trying to Comixpress like some of the other indy's?
Q
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Post by toddluck on Aug 5, 2006 20:36:34 GMT -5
A B&W comic can make money with 900 copies. Really? At what point do you start losing money if you're publishing a B & W comic?
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Post by Defiant1 on Aug 5, 2006 21:50:04 GMT -5
A B&W comic can make money with 900 copies. Really? At what point do you start losing money if you're publishing a B & W comic? Printing B&W is just a lot cheaper. I haven't done the math, but I've heard people say they did okay at that level. Obviously it depends upon what you pay for the script and how much of a page rate you pay. How much better will they do online? Give me a break. That's just stupid. Defiant1
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Post by Brother J on Aug 6, 2006 1:24:29 GMT -5
How much better will they do online? Give me a beak. That's just stupid. Defiant1 Yep, I have absolutely no interest in comics just available on the web. I look at this computer screen enough without wanting to read my comics on it.
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Post by toddluck on Aug 6, 2006 14:45:41 GMT -5
Most of the time "going online" means you're cutting your loses and trying to keep it going in some small form (which usually doesn't last long) though I'm sure their are lots of ways to make money just selling stuff online and at conventions.
To make Diamond's minimum sales you'ld have to have an 833 copy press run or higher at $3 retail price. Diamond gives you 40% of retail so you get $1.20 an issue. At 833 copies that's right at $1000. I can't imagine how that could cover both prinitng costs and labor (much less any promotional expenses like going to cons, etc). You could still make money other ways like selling the comics directly through cons, subscriptions, or online (all of which will make you more money per issue) but you wouldn't be making money from Diamond at that point.
A quick web search shows Claypool had an additional problem of charging $2.50 an issue which meant they would've had to sell even more (1,000 copies) to make Diamond's minimum. Honestly, this is the first time I've heard of Claypool or seen their comics so this isn't really shocking to me.
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Quato
Level 14
a.k.a. Defiant1
Quato a.k.a. Defiant1
Posts: 1,669
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Post by Quato on Aug 6, 2006 17:03:14 GMT -5
Honestly, this is the first time I've heard of Claypool or seen their comics so this isn't really shocking to me. I have an Elvira #1 somewhere in my collection. Peter David was writing Soul Searchers for years. Those Greensboro shops were real fickle with ordering indy comics. I walked in a few of those stores and just rolled my eyes at how narrow the selection was. One store acted like they were hip and cool simply because they knew what Stray Bullets was. That was one of a few indy's they were carrying in 1996. Q
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Post by toddluck on Aug 6, 2006 17:39:00 GMT -5
Honestly, this is the first time I've heard of Claypool or seen their comics so this isn't really shocking to me. I have an Elvira #1 somewhere in my collection. Peter David was writing Soul Searchers for years. Those Greensboro shops were real fickle with ordering indy comics. I walked in a few of those stores and just rolled my eyes at how narrow the selection was. One store acted like they were hip and cool simply because they knew what Stray Bullets was. That was one of a few indy's they were carrying in 1996. Q I've been to plenty of other shops than the ones in Greensboro and I've seen a wide variety of indi comics at those shops (and the one I frequent monthly in Greensboro). They could've had Claypool on the shelf at some point I just never noticed or don't recall, though if they've been putting out less than a 1000 copies a month that's a lot of shelves they haven't been reaching lately.
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Quato
Level 14
a.k.a. Defiant1
Quato a.k.a. Defiant1
Posts: 1,669
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Post by Quato on Aug 6, 2006 21:35:08 GMT -5
I have an Elvira #1 somewhere in my collection. Peter David was writing Soul Searchers for years. Those Greensboro shops were real fickle with ordering indy comics. I walked in a few of those stores and just rolled my eyes at how narrow the selection was. One store acted like they were hip and cool simply because they knew what Stray Bullets was. That was one of a few indy's they were carrying in 1996. Q I've been to plenty of other shops than the ones in Greensboro and I've seen a wide variety of indi comics at those shops (and the one I frequent monthly in Greensboro). They could've had Claypool on the shelf at some point I just never noticed or don't recall, though if they've been putting out less than a 1000 copies a month that's a lot of shelves they haven't been reaching lately. There are a lot of stores that rely entirely on Marvel & DC. It's no wonder the indy titles don't sell better. I wouldn't even shop at a store that maintained a 90% or higher inventpry on only just Marvel or DC. What was that store off in the corner. I think it was on High Point Road unless I'm getting the roads confused. I seem to recall a Manga store on the other side of the street. That comics store made me cringe. I've never felt so much I've wasted time in a store like I did that one. Q
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Post by toddluck on Aug 7, 2006 12:31:27 GMT -5
I've been to plenty of other shops than the ones in Greensboro and I've seen a wide variety of indi comics at those shops (and the one I frequent monthly in Greensboro). They could've had Claypool on the shelf at some point I just never noticed or don't recall, though if they've been putting out less than a 1000 copies a month that's a lot of shelves they haven't been reaching lately. There are a lot of stores that rely entirely on Marvel & DC. It's no wonder the indy titles don't sell better. I wouldn't even shop at a store that maintained a 90% or higher inventpry on only just Marvel or DC. What was that store off in the corner. I think it was on High Point Road unless I'm getting the roads confused. I seem to recall a Manga store on the other side of the street. That comics store made me cringe. I've never felt so much I've wasted time in a store like I did that one. Q The one on High Point Road you went to was one of Acme's locations that's now closed (they've been reduced to one store for years now). Like I've told you before they're very unusual for the state. I've only been in their stores a few times myself (and only to look for issues I couldn't find at my LCS) and I can't really remember much about their selection on the shelves. The prices they charge for back issues are insane. They would put new, completely worthless comics in there and charge 50 cent ABOVE cover price. We're talking about issues that everyone else has a hard time moving in their dollar boxes. They will haggle and come down on the prices but I'm trying to buy comics here, not a freakin' car. I'm sure most of the comic shops in North Carolina ordered the Elvira comic at some point. People who work at comic shops seemed to remember and like her around here (hell I think the LSC back in Asheboro had an original sketch of her hanging up at some point). But I haven't heard Elvira's name in many years. I'm shocked anyone's still putting out a comic with her name on it.
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Post by Defiant1 on Aug 7, 2006 12:51:29 GMT -5
There are a lot of stores that rely entirely on Marvel & DC. It's no wonder the indy titles don't sell better. I wouldn't even shop at a store that maintained a 90% or higher inventpry on only just Marvel or DC. What was that store off in the corner. I think it was on High Point Road unless I'm getting the roads confused. I seem to recall a Manga store on the other side of the street. That comics store made me cringe. I've never felt so much I've wasted time in a store like I did that one. Q The one on High Point Road you went to was one of Acme's locations that's now closed (they've been reduced to one store for years now). Like I've told you before they're very unusual for the state. I've only been in their stores a few times myself (and only to look for issues I couldn't find at my LCS) and I can't really remember much about their selection on the shelves. The prices they charge for back issues are insane. They would put new, completely worthless comics in there and charge 50 cent ABOVE cover price. We're talking about issues that everyone else has a hard time moving in their dollar boxes. They will haggle and come down on the prices but I'm trying to buy comics here, not a freakin' car. I'm sure most of the comic shops in North Carolina ordered the Elvira comic at some point. People who work at comic shops seemed to remember and like her around here (hell I think the LSC back in Asheboro had an original sketch of her hanging up at some point). But I haven't heard Elvira's name in many years. I'm shocked anyone's still putting out a comic with her name on it. That makes more sense. In your other reply it sounded like you'd never heard of the company. I can understand why the Acme store closed. It was full of stock but I saw nothing notable that I'd be interested in buying. Defiant1
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Post by toddluck on Aug 7, 2006 13:11:34 GMT -5
That makes more sense. In your other reply it sounded like you'd never heard of the company. Defiant1 Nope, you're right the first time. I've never heard of Claypool or, if I have, I don't remember them at all. I've heard of Elvira from TV, merchandise, and such but not in a long time
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Post by Defiant1 on Aug 7, 2006 16:09:50 GMT -5
That makes more sense. In your other reply it sounded like you'd never heard of the company. Defiant1 Nope, you're right the first time. I've never heard of Claypool or, if I have, I don't remember them at all. I've heard of Elvira from TV, merchandise, and such but not in a long time I guess I'm a little spoiled because of the diversity we've had in Atlanta. I've always seen a few copies where I shopped. Peter David had some loyal fans. Being a bigger city means the odds are greater of finding someone who wants it. I've always migrated towards shops that did have a good variety of indy books. Claypool always impressed me a little even if I wasn't supporting them my purchases. Defiant1
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Post by toddluck on Aug 7, 2006 17:38:25 GMT -5
Nope, you're right the first time. I've never heard of Claypool or, if I have, I don't remember them at all. I've heard of Elvira from TV, merchandise, and such but not in a long time I guess I'm a little spoiled because of the diversity we've had in Atlanta. I've always seen a few copies where I shopped. Peter David had some loyal fans. Being a bigger city means the odds are greater of finding someone who wants it. I've always migrated towards shops that did have a good variety of indy books. Claypool always impressed me a little even if I wasn't supporting them my purchases. Defiant1 I still wouldn't doubt my area retailers have carried Claypool. I doubt I would notice most of their titles at all if I saw them on the shelf since the covers and titles I looked up don't look like anything that catch my eye or interest me. Any Elivra photo cover I saw, would probably be deleted from my memory immediately (she just looks so d**n cheezy and trashy...sorry, I'm just not an Elvira fan). But most of my Indi comic familarity doesn't come from crowded comic book shelves. It comes from studying Previews, comic conventions, and (later) online news. Back in the 90's I made it my business to know what indi's where publishing since I would send solitations to them. I'm surprised I never spotted Claypool. And yes my comic shops have spoiled me with indi comics too which have left me comic boxes filled issues that either a) I didn't enjoy enough to collect past one issue b) unfinished storieline, abandoned series, and broken promises c) series I dropped because I got tired of getting jerked around on the cover price and the once-in-a-blue-moon publishing schedule It almost makes me glad I can no longer afford to try out new series anymore.
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Post by Defiant1 on Aug 7, 2006 19:02:55 GMT -5
c) series I dropped because I got tired of getting jerked around on the cover price and the once-in-a-blue-moon publishing schedule The irregular publishing schedule is what ultimately took new comics out of my routine. Comics like Strangehaven and Optic Nerve could have kept me collecting if they'd come out regularly. I remember liking Mr. X #1 so much that I almost kept collecting in the 80's. Defiant1
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RedAngel
Creator & Honored Guest
SINNAMON Writer, Co-creator
Posts: 139
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Post by RedAngel on Aug 11, 2006 13:46:35 GMT -5
A B&W comic can make money with 900 copies. Why punish the 600 or so fans of this comic? If by "make money", you mean "break even on printing and shipping costs", I agree. The only way to make money selling 900 copies is if you can get full cover price for a $3 book. And you're all doing the creative chores yourself. Claypool always had me wondering how the creative talent got paid. Since they were in the business so long, I assumed they were selling their books outside the Diamond distribution chain. I can't believe they lasted so long while getting so little press. Dave Sim (Cerebus) got a lot more press during his run. And a lot more sales during his peak. My thoughts exactly. If you've got a book you're "publishing" to the web, why not risk the $20 to get it printed up via P.O.D.? I would think Claypool is the perfect candidate for P.O.D. treatment. They have a definite niche product, with name creators who might have some fan support. I think Claypool has always been very poor at marketing their books. It's a shame, as they had a quality product. Not that I EVER saw any of their books up here in Toronto.
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Post by Defiant1 on Aug 11, 2006 19:28:52 GMT -5
I stand corrected then. Breaking even is not making money unless it attracts attention to another project or merchandise that is making a profit. If they weren't making money, why did they need Diamond to pull their plug for them!
defiant1
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