Spoiler Warning: Regarding Nudge

[Defiant1]

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-spoiler warning

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Guest-Todd said:

In all her crossover appearances, she was being influenced by her contact with the mind of Wardancer's lover which she encounted in her trip to the brain of Plasm. I found her motivations (and those of the "force" that influenced her) pretty easy to follow in each appearance.

I did a little digging (but I still haven't reread them all).

I disagree about this being easy to follow because these comics were released out of order.

They hinted about something inside in Warriors of Plasm #7, but she's distressed and at no point does it appear that she will lose control.



They never show her returning to Earth, but she appears in Good Guys #4 the same month. As a reader, I was a bit confused as to when the characters left the Plasm world and what their motivations were.

Plasm shifts to a "Great Grimmax" storyline in issue #8. That was a bad and abrupt segue. You don't fully see what happened to change Nudge until it looks like about issue #12 (from a scan of several comics). That comic was released with a July of 1994 date.

Nudge had already been acting posessed in Charlemagne #4 (June 1994). Sure, what you say had been plotted, but the transitions weren't written and fully explained.

Here is one attempt to explain what happened:



As a reader going through this dialogue, I was wondering what her reason were for going after Charlemagne. I don't recall an instance where it was revealed anywhere prior that the "mind of Wardancer's lover" was involved. This is a critical element of the story that is not explained at a time when the reader needs it explained.
The artwork was very subpar on her crossover issues and the quality had been all over the map for several months.

You had Alan Weiss doing top notch work. You had Adam Polina doing top notch works, and then you had some oversized books being handled by guys that didn't yet have their polish or their style.

This panel from Charlemagne #4 is one of the all time lows.



I feel sorry for any colorist having to work with that.

Also, this panel from Good Guys #4 does not look anything like any previous depictions of Nudge that I had seen before.



The rest of the book was in keeping with the normal Good Guys art style, but such a drastic change for Nudge's appearance was just a huge distraction.

Lapham rarely drew her below the waist, but this looks nothing like her drawing on the foil Plasm Card (#7 0f 9).

She went from thin and trim in my imagination and then the next thing I know she has gorged herself on chocolate cake, added a few pounds, lost her chest and she's become evil. My reaction was "Huh?" I was just confused.

I do like your explanation. I like the scope of what she was doing. I liked the plotting. I liked the potential of the character. Unfortunately I feel "green" talent was tasked with showing us her abilities and I feel that they dropped the ball. So, in concept, Nudge was an excellent character, but there had been too many shortcomings in her presentation. Not enough explanation when it was needed.

These comics were published out of order and that is how I was tasked with reading them.

Defiant1

[Todd Luck]

The stories not going in exact linear order didn’t confuse me; I knew exactly what they were doing. In fact, it enhanced the stories.

I knew when I picked up Dark Dominion 4 (and the other issues) they were setting up a mystery that would be revealed over time. I also knew they were showing readers of Plasm events that would happen in the future of that title in order to tease and intrigue us. The issues had enough information to understand what was happening to Nudge in the context of each issue of but not enough to spoil any specific events in Plasm. It forced even readers who got all the titles to see Nudge from the eyes of the characters in each title who didn’t know everything about her or what had happened to her.

But the most important thing they accomplished was surprise. When Nudge fought Chasm in Good Guys 4 she seemed to be perfectly back to normal. When she sent Chasm though the portal we had no idea why. In the Plasm issue when he did arrive on the Org it was a surprise. We had no idea what he was planning and why. Then came the end of the issue when suddenly we found out that a) Plasm has a soul b) that soul is War Dancer’s lover c) Nudge sent Chasm through to steal it and send it to Earth! I was 100% authentically shocked. It was a great moment.

Since they had already given sufficient info in that issue for those who read both War Dancer and Plasm to infer that Nudge had been influenced by her encounter with the mind of War Dancer’s lover the next two issues in the “crossover” (War Dancer 4 and Charlemagne 4) had Nudge doing and saying things that made the influence obvious for those who knew what to look for.

But you’re probably right, for those who didn’t collect all the titles (and even for the “know it alls” who did collect all the titles ;D) it was meant to be a mystery that would come to a head in Schism and would’ve been one of that miniseries big revelations (in reality it didn’t get spelled out for the reader until the final issue of Plasm)

BTW, Nudge wasn’t possessed, she was influenced. She was an empath. Her power is to feel others emotions. She came across a consciousness with such powerful emotions that it overwhelmed her. She couldn’t tell where her emotions ended and those of War Dancer’s lover began.

And the way you describe the artists drawing her proportions in those issues and the picture you cited is EXACTLY the way Lapham drew her in Plasm. Pull out those Plasm issues and give them a look.

My only criticism of that plotline was that they didn’t sufficiently tell readers were the next story in the crossover was going to be. If you got Previews or already collected all the issues (like me) it was no problem, but for those who only collected a few titles it would’ve been an issue.

[Defiant1]

Guest-Todd said:

The stories not going in exact linear order didn’t confuse me; I knew exactly what they were doing. In fact, it enhanced the stories.

I agree that it should have enhanced the stories. I agree that tidbits of information scattered like this do enhance any stories that Jim plots. My problem was with the execution. I don't feel as though enough of a foundation of "who the characters are" was established in the Plasm series. Plasm was of course the flagship title. When the characters started crossing over, none of their abilities had clearly been defined. We knew their background and we'd seen them use their powers a few times but that's about it. When I read Nudge's first crossover, the first thing I looked for was character development. What I got (based on my memory) was an altered state of her personality that had no bearing or meaning for me.

I'm not as bad as the MTV generation... the kids with no attention span...but the explanations needed to roll out much sooner. Dark Dominion was doing a much better job of showing the reader who Michael Alexander was. You could set it down and have an idea of which direction the story was going.

My guess would be that all the creators were follwing this timeline:

www.angelfire.com/comics/defiant/Scripts/Defiant_Timeline.html

and using it as a foundation to move the universe towards Schism. If so, I feel that the pace was rushed and that more explanation and character development should have occurred.

It is my strong belief that the creators put too much of a focus on the Schism crossover and not enough emphasis on explaining the events leading up to the crossover.
I believe everyone was trying to use VALIANT's Unity crossover as a template for what they were trying to at DEFIANT. Sadly, they didn't take the care to let the reader become more aquainted with the characters first. Magnus and Solar had 30 years of history behind them. There was a multitude of resources available for any new reader to find out more about who they were. VALIANT wasn't throwing anywhere near as many new concepts into the pot.

Guest-Todd said:

I knew when I picked up Dark Dominion 4 (and the other issues) they were setting up a mystery that would be revealed over time. I also knew they were showing readers of Plasm events that would happen in the future of that title in order to tease and intrigue us. The issues had enough information to understand what was happening to Nudge in the context of each issue of but not enough to spoil any specific events in Plasm. It forced even readers who got all the titles to see Nudge from the eyes of the characters in each title who didn’t know everything about her or what had happened to her.

I understood something was happening, but the pace was too slow and they kept dropping the subject. If I'm reading comics over a span of months and something isn't happening in two or three consecutive months, I don't keep holding onto past plot threads and brewing over them. Some people do, but I don't. Too many series out there change writers far too often. I don't assume that an editor is going to force each and every plot lead to be followed.

I can only compare this to Claremont's writing. It wasn't until 10 years or more after the fact that I realized events happening in Uncanny X-Men #128 actually started in Uncanny X-Men # 101(?) or around there. There are some great issues issues inbetween those, but in all honesty, a two year gap in action is too far for me to even want to make associations.

On the flip side of that coin, I'm still wanting Marvel to follow-up on Jean Grey's modeling career and Scott Summer's job as a Disc Jockey. I'm also curious about Bobby's crush on Jean. What about the X-Men submarine that was only mentioned once in their 40 year history?

My point is that several months went by with no explanation and there was no hint that the events were any more relevant to the reader than the other concepts were were tasked with figuring out. By the time Nudge was hopping around the titles, I was jolly with excitement about Charlemagne and War Dancer kicking each other's bu......posterior.

And... MY letter is printed in Charlemagne #4... not Plasm. I don't mean to imply I was ignoring any of the titles, just less compelled because of the way they jumped around.

Of course I'm that same person that thinks you should teach people the basic of a math or science before challenging students with the trick questions.

Being bright enough to figure out the tricky things and having the time and resources to do it are two unrelated issues. A writer's goal should be to surprise and please the reader, not lead them through a maze pointing at a million possibilities until their head is spinning.

Guest-Todd said:

But the most important thing they accomplished was surprise. When Nudge fought Chasm in Good Guys 4 she seemed to be perfectly back to normal. When she sent Chasm though the portal we had no idea why. In the Plasm issue when he did arrive on the Org it was a surprise.

Again, Chasm hadn't really lived down to his reputation by that time either. He'd been an obstacle for Michael, but he came across as more of a nuisance. I just don't feel the characters had been seen enough action to instill any huge dread.

Guest-Todd said:

We had no idea what he was planning and why. Then came the end of the issue when suddenly we found out that a) Plasm has a soul b) that soul is War Dancer’s lover c) Nudge sent Chasm through to steal it and send it to Earth! I was 100% authentically shocked. It was a great moment.

Well, obviously if they are on a quest, the writer intended something to be there. This harkens back to the days of my youth when my mother would tell me "the hero has to kill the bad guy in 7 minutes, after that we're flipping over to watch the news". I would panic... but then I'd look down at my watch to see the show ended in seven minutes anyway. So.... I wasn't shocked. I knew War Dancer's love was floating around somewhere. They hinted it was in the girl from War Dancer #1.

Plasm and War Dancer are the two series that I haven't reread yet.

Guest-Todd said:

Since they had already given sufficient info in that issue for those who read both War Dancer and Plasm to infer that Nudge had been influenced by her encounter with the mind of War Dancer’s lover the next two issues in the “crossover” (War Dancer 4 and Charlemagne 4) had Nudge doing and saying things that made the influence obvious for those who knew what to look for.

As a reader, I wasn't looking for anything. I had a hero acting like a villian. That confused me. I kept waiting for an explanation, and it just kept being pushed back. When it finally started to make sense, the books quit being published. My foresight was enough that I knew the negative publicity and dropping sales would kill the company despite what the editorials said. I didn't read the last issues as enthusiastically as I read the early ones. I did feel it was all starting to gel quite nicely, but the path getting there was a bumpy one. Neither VALIANT not Broadway Comics had a road that bumpy.

Guest-Todd said:

But you’re probably right, for those who didn’t collect all the titles (and even for the “know it alls” who did collect all the titles ;D) it was meant to be a mystery that would come to a head in Schism and would’ve been one of that miniseries big revelations (in reality it didn’t get spelled out for the reader until the final issue of Plasm)

Well, if you are trying to imply I didn't have and read all the titles, I did. I was buying 3 each at least on everything, even though I knew everyone else was doing the same. As a matter of fact, I bought 10 copies of #1 the day it came out at 55% off cover price. The retailer who had bought them at the level he expected them to sell them found out that a new competitor was offering books at 45% off in an attempt to steal his customers. Rather than be stuck with the books, he sold them at a loss to me just to get rid of them... and he still had plenty left.

(Side Note: At the same comic show a wholeseller was selling Plasm #0 binders direct to customers at a very escalated price and this same wholeseller had shorted all his retail accounts those very same binders. To add insult to injury, this guy knew Jim Shooter personally. I wonder what Jim would have thought if he'd known.)

Guest-Todd said:

BTW, Nudge wasn’t possessed, she was influenced. She was an empath. Her power is to feel others emotions. She came across a consciousness with such powerful emotions that it overwhelmed her. She couldn’t tell where her emotions ended and those of War Dancer’s lover began.

I don't feel that it was made clear. You have great explanations, but the stories themselves don't define the matter very well and there were many other options possible.

continued...

Defiant1

[Defiant1]

Guest-Todd said:

And the way you describe the artists drawing her proportions in those issues and the picture you cited is EXACTLY the way Lapham drew her in Plasm. Pull out those Plasm issues and give them a look.

Well, I did... and David rarely drew her below the waist. David always drew her as an attractive woman. She had moderately wide hips, but she still had a chest and she looked toned. The picture I posted above makes her look dumpy, and not well kept. I'm probably offending someone because it's my understanding that some of the characters are based on real people. Some of the panels in some of the issues show her with a narrow almost anorexic face. There was just too many distractive elements by having so many different artists give their version of her. Of course, most people I know had trouble figuring out which girl was which in the early issues of Harbinger. We eventually figured out the wardrobe was a dead giveaway. As a reader, I like stable creative teams. That's just a must for me. I grew up reading comics like that, and any shifting of talent around every month or three months is a quality step backwards, no matter how wonderful the tale. There is about a years worth of 70's Captain America issues that I can't tell you what happened because I couldn't stand Frank Robbins art.

Guest-Todd said:

My only criticism of that plotline was that they didn’t sufficiently tell readers were the next story in the crossover was going to be. If you got Previews or already collected all the issues (like me) it was no problem, but for those who only collected a few titles it would’ve been an issue.

I glanced at previews, but most people who subscribe don't read the details of the solicitation every month. They see the the key words "crossover" or anything that is exciting, but a conflict of some sort is par for the course.

BTW, any negative things I say should not be deemed and attack on the product. I'm a quality inspector for a living. My web site doesn't even live up to my expectations nor is there enough time in a week to get it close. It is my job to find things wrong and I get paid pretty well for that 40hrs a week. My eyes, ears and opinions don't shut off when I go home. Ultimately, where my dollars went were my final vote. I bought less than 5 Malibu comics in the whole time they were published. I own Broadway and Defiant in depth and I'm not ashamed of that.


Defiant1